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%- MOTW 14 -%
| deadline to enter maps: 2006, 04, 01 (Year, month, day) |
| here we go again ;) No april`s fool |
Comments:
| Arden(WoF) |
| There are only four maps in, and I don't want to jump the gun, but I really want to see Darina take it this week. But to be fair, I won't truly vote until the majority of the maps are in. |
| maximumdan |
| these are my first two motw submissions, i had a few small changes to make on honor though sorry about bringing it back to the top of the newest updates. |
| decafchicken |
| Zunderfarm is definatly taking the win this week. |
| lnept |
| lol are you just making fun of me ? |
| Arden(WoF) |
| It would have to be really bad to promote sarcasm like that, and it's not. Sure, it's pretty imba for all matchups, but it's fun and interesting. Although, sorry not my primary MOTW vote =/. |
| Arden(WoF) |
| Most matchups* |
| lnept |
| lol yea PvT will be a lot of reaver/dt drops ^^ ZvT zergs will get beaten up late game on the other hand muta harassment owns this map cant really think of anything else |
| decafchicken |
| zvz, pvp, tvt are the only balanced matches on that map. |
| lnept |
| why isnt pvz balanced ? |
| Arden(WoF) |
| Well, I'm sure theres a more complicated reason, but what I usually come across is this: Narrow pathways to main + lurkers on opposing team + your attempt at harrassment with zlots = DIE DIE P DIE DIE DIE! |
| sp |
| Thought you oughta know by now that A TIGHT MAP PROMOTES P VS Z. |
| Listoric |
| O RLY? |
| flothefreak |
| PvZ is imbalanced because the protoss troops die to lurkers while the lurkers die to psi. so obviously, all die and no one wins. which is bad, imbalance. |
| LaO-Artanis |
| I demand you all either comment on my map, or make it MOTW! ^^ |
| nasty |
| some1 make a map criteria thread of some sort so people no where to aim their ideas towards 'good' gameplay in future maps.. cuz sometimes im even unclear to wat people really want to see and game on.. and btw alot of people arent commenting on maps as much nemore.. wheres everyone at? |
| decafchicken |
| LaO, your map sucks for zerg. and pathing is messed up in some occasions |
| LaO-Artanis |
| decaf, have you tested the pathing? I doubt you have. As for zerg sucking, it has easy access to double gas on a ramp whilst still being able to block the choke with that hatch. You call that sucking? |
| yenku |
| Darinas. About time. lol Then Zunderfarm Those are the only two worth a motw. |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Yenku, that made me laugh. No offense Inept, but Zunderfarm scores pretty bad at the balance department. TvP=T auto win. TvZ=T wins 9 out of 10 games unless it's a very short game. PvZ might be interesting, but all MU's should be balanced on a MOTW imo, or at least close enough. |
| NastyMarine |
| whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat how about frozen tundra... sexy as hellllllll! zunderfarm isnt a canidate... it has good ideas but it jus doesnt match the quality of most motws. its lacking decoration etc. darina is cool but the mains are tooooooooooooo awkward.. the mains shuld be highground... the nats shuld be at the 'feeling faces' and the main space shuld be stretched to where the sunken nat is. honor guide me has a sexy set up but its missing sumthing.. its lacking suttin special and i cant put my finger on it -_-.. FT is sexy.. its suttin different and i think i shuld get my first motw!! lol the others arent canidates imo |
| LGI- |
| The expand positions are playing big role in gameplay and stratagyes. If i move them to the "feeling faces" they're role will be just to be a second spot for getting resurs... You see i like more dynamic and tactical elements in my maps. |
| NastyMarine |
| yeah of course but its jus too awkward and keeping it simple is a better choice.. there reason why the mains have a problem is b.c the nat doesnt cover the choke.. and doing that doesnt make it dynamic.. now what is dynamic about ur map is your middle that u have put into the map.. its beautiful but the nats jus hafta be put in better positions.... if the nat was the only passage to teh middle then it'd be ok but its really not encouraged to change those types of things.. u kno that |
| NastyMarine |
| i think suttin like that wuld be better for this map .. tho ur way is fine tho.. i like the way ur map turned out but i think this wuld be more logical imo .. but urs def is sexxxy |
| AiurZ |
| NastyMarine, your version would make terran way overpowered from horizontal positions, because they can block your entrance to the rest of the map by defending a single ramp, and just turtling their two ramps by expo. |
| AiurZ |
| darina is okay, but one thing ive noticed with that gas block thing is that it is almost never used, and the gas becomes little more than decoration. i think you can alleviate this by making the patches guarding it into more depleted patches, like 100 or 200 minerals so that it still takes time to mine, but it doesnt take absolutely forever to the point where its nigh useless. |
| LGI- |
| @Nasty, i don't see problems with my mains. "NastyMarine, your version would make terran way overpowered from horizontal positions, because they can block your entrance to the rest of the map by defending a single ramp, and just turtling their two ramps by expo." - Exatcly! @AiurZ, my point of putting those extra gas behind the mineral onlys is only for 2v2 late games. Everyon have a 2v2 game more then 30 minutes and know how fast the resurs are mined, because they are 4 players lol... So for a 2v2 games those gas stations will be used. I don't want to make a min blocks with 100-200 minerals because in 1v1 games the gas will be overwhelming. It will make every expand on this map with gas wich is not very good, imo. Thanks for comments and suggestions, but for now i will keep my version. |
| lnept |
| I wouldnt say autowin, but yea its imbalanced. I will bet my staying here on this website that i can beat 9 out of 10 people here at PvT on that map. ZvT i dont really see a problem. hold lurker would be insane here as well as mutalisks... |
| lnept |
| anyways, check out my other map maybe it is more to your taste of balanced |
| yenku |
| Yes Artanis, We went over all that, but I think its better than the others and it is a cool setup. I didnt see frozen tundra at the time, I think thats good |
| Nasty |
| 1)Frozen Tundra 2)Darinas Feelings 3)Honor Guide Me |
| flothefreak |
| i will post my thoughts tomorrow or so... |
| LaO-Artanis |
| @Yenku it might look better than the others, but if it isn't balanced it shouldn't matter, as balance > looks. As for the maps, I believe FT is best right now, if I exclude my personal bias ^^ |
| inept |
| if your worried about balance, why you pick FT i have no idea... |
| NastyMarine |
| @Artanis .. what personal bias ? lol @inept .. the only problem u have with FT (to my knowledge) is the ramps.. which havent even been tested.. so show us a rep that proves to us there is a real problem with them... in fact.. im gaming tonight with exalted on this map.. so to everyone who wants to game around 8pm - 1am eastern time (USA) come and whisper me sc east : nastymarine |
| NastyMarine |
| btw personal bias shouldnt effect map descisions for motws |
| LaO-Artanis |
| With the personal bias, I meant that I'd say AoS is the best with it ^^ |
| NastyMarine |
| o i thought u meant suttin else but yea its ok to vote for ur own map.. as long as it is an actual contender for motw |
| Arden(WoF) |
| Although it may seem a bit complicated, FT is a pretty straight forward map imo. It's got a nice idea with the layout, but without tileramps, the idea simply cannot work. There may be a few plausable matchups but imbalances stand out. Don't get me wrong, I think nasty did a good job with it, and the concept is definetly cool, but something so "experimental" shouldn't really get MOTW. Apply tileramps so open passages to the center, and I would probably vote for it. |
| lnept |
| finally some one that agrees with me...thank you arden jesus christ savior lol My vote so far is 1. Darina 2. Backwater station 3. zunderfarm/serpent? |
| yenku |
| definately needs extended ramps, I thought that was already discussed. |
| NastyMarine |
| inept is bunz lol... anyway what u want me to do? open the ramps? that is too hard for me.. very difficult.. plus we gon test the map to see if thats a real factor in the gaming category.. so its gon stay until the problems to come to pass wen we play tonight |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Hm, is anyone going to tell me what my map is lacking, as you all seem to agree that it isn't a contender. What's wrong with it? :/ |
| NastyMarine |
| path of victory has a nice concept but its in its beta stages... it needs more decoration and better terrain patterns among the battle field and mains etc.. the other map is nice but the mains are unorthadox so its a turn off basically.. |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Well, the fact that AoS is unorthodox is the reason for its creation. If all maps were standard, we'd still be playing LT clones. As for PoV, there's little more you can put in a 64x64 map. I tried squeezing as much decoration in it as I can, but I can't put much more in it :P |
| lnept |
| well PoV would just look stupid if we put it as MOTW, it doesnt take very long to make although i like 64x64 maps other map the small mains annoy me as does forte, the mineral blocks are annoying as well and should just be cut off into islands maybe think about doing something with topright/botleft like a cliff for harassing macro buildings maybe? |
| lnept |
| and i just notice the naturals have no gas...wtf? |
| NastyMarine |
| o shit i was looking at another map by bad for PoV.. so yeah i like PoV but 64 64 it quite tight.. i'd play it but im not too crazy to have it motw when there are some better maps |
| decafchicken |
| @LaO Let's take a look at why this map sucks for zerg. 1) Cramped low ground main. GG to anyone who gets bunk rushed. 2) No gas nat. 3)!@#$ed up, unefficient 2 gas high ground. Whatever. 4) Tankable nat And unit pathing is messed up if someone attacks the min only from their main. |
| maximumdan |
| @ the voters is relayer in the running? i feel like it is stronger than honor which has been mentioned a little |
| maximumdan |
| and wtf is a zunder anyways? |
| flothefreak |
| google says: punk scale scales [tech.] tinder i only know the german "zunder", so i can't say which of these expressions is the right one. |
| lnept |
| haha, i didnt even know it was a word, completely random name for completely random map. |
| LaO-Artanis |
| 1) if T tries to bunk rush the main, it can be stopped easily, as guess what, the drones are there! 2) there are 2 geysers there now. 3) Terran has the same problem, and there's a reason why certain ZvT players love nostalgia so much; a T with only 1 gas is easier to beat. 4) Not anymore. Unit pathing was never a problem, and still won't be this way as you always move through the center. I guess you haven't tried this anyhow! |
| lnept |
| lol now i really hate that map...you made it so much worst |
| decafchicken |
| "3) Terran has the same problem, and there's a reason why certain ZvT players love nostalgia so much; a T with only 1 gas is easier to beat." Because lings(zerg min only unit) are so effective agasint mass marines(terran min only unit), right? -_- |
| yenku |
| duh |
| LaO-Artanis |
| no, because T has a hard time expanding after its first expo, whilst Z tends to exp more freely. This is why TreK loves ZvT@nostalgia, for example. |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Btw, I removed the gas @ elevated catwalk, as workers tend to get stuck behind it. |
| lnept |
| the map just has no chance anymore, zerg cant fast expand so it limits strategys |
| decafchicken |
| And the rest of us rather not get steamrolled by mass mnm against 4 lurks -_- |
| decafchicken |
| And now the highground is pointless and zerg still cant FE |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Zerg certainly can FE, I've tested the creep. |
| lnept |
| its not close enough at all. not to mention they can just do a cheese rush and run past it before creep gets that far |
| decafchicken |
| Have you tested in game where it actually takes time for the creep to reach the spot where sunks needed? If you wait for that too happen, you die. |
| flothefreak |
| frozen tundra satan and milk those just freak me out i dunno why darina doesn't excite me...i guess the mainbases dont attract me somehow. it is a good map but it is not overwhelming me as those two above do. |
| LGI |
| You know, i expect (2)Satan And Milk to be in this MotW competition, and i expect that there will be IDIOTS WHO WILL VOTE FOR A MAP THAT IS 3 DAYS OLD! I am sorry but the level of BroodWarMaps is going so down, thats why i stop comment most of the maps and everything, because i am sick of seening stupid actions taken like this one, like voting for Satan and Mild, without any tests, discusion or whatever it is. It's, ok to vote for this map next week, because we will have more info about the map, and hopefully some replays too. You see in the map topic that there is candidates for the map to play on. Can't you wait a little god damn it?! A week or two to see some gameplay and shits? How can you vote for a map only from the pic. Damn i am so pissed off, because most of the MotW maps recently that you pick are few days old, and quick make it MotW. WHY? WHYYYYYYYYY? If the map has a MotW potention, give it some time to proove and promote the map a little. Why do you think that when i make a map first i make at least 10 good games for you to watch, the others 20-30 games i don't show, just because they don't show a lot about the map, and then i submit it for the MotW competition. Am i the only one who is tolerating and respect this competition? |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Okay, let's say you're 'right' (although I still disagree on this) and Zerg can't FE with its first hatch.. Does that mean the map is immediately imbalanced? You can place a hatch on the choke, then on the nat like a bazillion other maps deemed balanced. Take Rush Hour 2.0 at 11, R-Point, EtD (where even 3hatch wasn't possible) and more. It isn't as imbalanced as you want me to believe. |
| Spitfire |
| LGI is damn right. I need some time, about a week to work out the map. If it will be accepted as motw, little changes will be unable. Let's see the result. |
| lnept |
| well Lao, thats where you take into account the "other parts of the map" zerg has to research overlord upgrades to get his 3rd gas or take the one right in the open that early lol? to make an attack it will be nostalgia like with the double bridges so he will have to mass expo, but yet there is nowhere to get extra gas. R-Point is ok because the rest of the map is zerg. all paths are big, all gas expos, etc Rush hour it has the 2 different pathways which plays huge rolls for lurker flanks and later game flanks which is the reason i think zerg is strong on this map. EtD was never a balanced map lol^^ |
| decafchicken |
| @LGI What else can we do? With a map of the WEEK system, we need to pick a map every week, and sometiems the best one isn't finished yet :-/ We either a) need more time or- b) need faster testing/improving of maps |
| LGI- |
| Or c) Look at the date base. How we pull out maps like (4)Nautilus 1.1 for a MotW? They are so many maps that have the potentiol for a MotW, but because they are submit in the date base long ago, doesn't mean that they aren't better then maps who are created resently. |
| flothefreak |
| then submit them. |
| decafchicken |
| /agree |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Why does zerg need overlord upgrades to get an expo on the ground? As an addition to that, muta harass on this map is easier than on practically any map. Main minerals are harassable, you can get behind the nat too with relatively little defense. If anything, I'd say the map is in favor of Z. |
| NastyMarine |
| LGI is right. but ur overreacting FE for zerg isnt necessary as long as the rest of the map is more developed for zerg. thats it now how about this weeks competition?! lets vote so we can get onto next weeks motw.. 1)FT 2)Satan and Milk 3)Darinas Feelings |
| LaO-Artanis |
| 1)Arena of Suffering 2)Path of Victory 3)Satan and Milk |
| lnept |
| no vote from me this weekend |
| Arden(WoF) |
| 1. Darinas Feelings 2. Darinas Feelings 3. Darinas Feelings |
| decafchicken |
| Wow, LaO, talk about biased. |
| LaO-Artanis |
| Already announced it beforehand, you should've seen it coming ~~ |
| lnept |
| still its very gay to vote for your own maps unless it is truly the best here... |
| NastyMarine |
| well we need like 2 more voters or suttin .. this week its either ft or darina.. cuz i think its sed and done wen it comes to satan and milk being 'too late' this week. unless sum1 has objections.. ft or darina submit ur votes |
| panschk[FP] |
| Darinas Feelings. LGI is right, and his maps are proven ones. Making beautiful JPGs MOTW is not enough. |
| flothefreak |
| i dont wanna be bastard. but i just can become friend of darina (no second meaning intended). so it is FT for me sry LGI, i can only follow my instinct |
| Spitfire |
| FT looks like a sexy candidate. |
| flothefreak |
| i still DONT think wider ramps are needed... |
| LaO-Artanis |
| FT for me. |
| inept |
| none for me unless FT gets wider ramps or Darina stops being so annoying horizontal positions |
| decafchicken |
| FT |
| NastyMarine |
| well we still dont have great reps on it yet.. and any and every player i've played against on it (except inept) sed that ramps werent a problem. other than that its either that sum1 is gonna be blown away by the look and feel or hate it altogether |
| LGI- |
| (4)Darina's Feelings - 4 - LGI, panschk[FP], Arden(WoF), yenku (2)Frozen Tundra - 4 - NastyMarine, decafchicken, LaO-Artanis, flothefreak Spitfire your vote goes for (2)Frozen Tundra or what? Same goes for AiurZ. Your vote is going for (4)Darina's Feelings? *Note - I count only TOP 1 by each user. |
| Spitfire |
| Right. |
| LGI- |
| Ok, if AiurZ, Listoric, Starparty, JK)Valkyrion, epidOn, maximumdan, MillenniumArmy, noname and any other from the active mappers here, have nothing to say then go for it. It's 5-4 for (2)Frozen Tundra. It's good that NastyMarine will finally got a MotW, but it's bad that it's going to be this map... I wish it was something else, but that's life... |
| NastyMarine |
| lol what map would u rather see of mine as motw? i have a couple of maps that i think are pretty good canidates for motw but they wont ever get it jus cuz... now thats life -_- .. actually i'd feel the same for u too .. darina is a good map but i'd rather see a different map of urs get it. imo |
| LGI- |
| To be honest, on a look, concept and shits like this Darina (the map :) ) isn't from my favourites... But like i said somewhere earlyer before. It feels great in game. Comfortable, smooth just the things i need for most of my maps. I see that most of the mappers here like Hocus Peakus most, thats why you pick it for the map pack. But even i have more then 60 games on Hocus, i still can't get used to it, and it's hard for me to play on it. Thats why i am trying to promote maps that are smooth and good in gameplay like Darina, Azax Syndrome or Kin Dza Dza. They are my most comfortable maps. |
| --v mOsQ |
| (2)MidNight |
| flothefreak |
| i made 3 games on FT yesterday btw. and i don't fear terran taking and holding the center btw - it is too large for doing this - but the real problem is that terran can push along the sidepath from expo to expo without really being stopped by anything. so i think it is a bit terranbiased - esp. with the shootable mainminerals. on the other hand, i dont know anything about darina-balance, and i think there could be some hidden problems which - no offence lgi - have just not appeared while playing due to well known reasons. |
| yenku |
| It has to be Darinas Feelings. Its well balanced, looks good and had good reps on it. |
| flothefreak |
| i change opinion to darina then, for it seems to be the more deliberated way- while FT would be "my" choice coming from the heart |
| LGI- |
| Again i will start with "To be honest..." To be honest i will be happy if you find something not balanced on Darina, because i really want to push this map very far. Like i said it's one of the best maps of mine with so good gameplay. |
| flothefreak |
| the thing of "not balanced" to me is, like on sattarchasm: it seems balanced, and a few games may prove it - but taking larger numbers of games in considering, there is a hidden imbalance. i dunno why, but i am afraid there is s.th. you can't see by picture or a few games. however, i may be wrong since i actually dunno where this feeling comes from. at least there is no striking imbalance, so make it darina. |
| LGI- |
| Next time we can make a Bo3 or Bo5 if you want... We still have to finish our last gaming :) . But tonight i am busy with Darina (the love, not the map :) ). |
| NastyMarine |
| looks like ill never get motw -_- |
| LGI- |
| You've just start to improve yourself with a nice speed. So don't say "never". My first MotW was (4)Wizzy Noise. I still feel a little sorry for making this map MotW. That time i think like you, and i push it really hard just like you, just because i really want to have a MotW map. After some months i have another point of view... A better one, an improved one... So i am sure that really soon you will have more MotW candidates like (2)Frozen Tundra. And btw you can't be 100% sure that you've lost... I say it before 4 players maps and 2 players maps are diffrent categores for me... But many mappers were not agreed with me. But in the end, you can see how many 2 players maps are in the pro map packs and the nomber of 4 players maps... And i am not tryging to say that every map that we produse is made to be a pro map. I've seen fun, experimental and other types of maps as a MotW. |
| LGI- |
| P.S. And when you make your better maps that would be better then "Wizzy Noise" (read Frozen Tundra"), i would be happier, because like i've said earlyer today, i really don't like very much Frozen Tundra, but thats me :) . |
| lnept |
| Darina needs to do something about horizontal positions still. are you just going to ignore it :/ ZvT is REALLY hard on the map 1 because its so close position and 2nd you hvae to triple hatch. |
| NastyMarine |
| FT has retired |
| Listoric |
| :/ |
| LGI- |
| Ok it's about time to pick. Darina or what? Give me a final word, from whoever write it first to move on. If it's Darina i promise to have mercy on you, and i will write my own newspost, because i know how much you hate the map and the writing. P.S. I will try to write something with red colour, Listoric. {} |
| NastyMarine |
| lol its darina .. im gonna retire FT.. its going into the mappack so make it darina.. unless u really wanna show me some mercy and give me my first motw!!!!!! :) |
| flothefreak |
| make it darina then, for we NEED the motwpost |
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