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MOTW 2006.51
| deadline to enter maps: 2006, 12, 16 (Year, month, day) |
| Okay, here we go again:) Deadline is saturday for sending maps in, then we have a whole week for testing and discussion. |
Comments:
| LGI |
| Can i add a rule here? Since we got a new system... When the testing comes every author should test others authors maps. Not his own! Couse even if i submit one of mine maps here whit 20 replays for example, most of the other authors who are voting won't care if i had 20 replays or not... They will go again whit their stupid theory crafting and we will again fight for bullshits... So i suggest every after first to play severel games and comment the MU that he played, not the MU that he didn't play, so then his theory crafting will be confirmed by his replay and he will also have good arguments for everything. I think thats fair enough for everyone... |
| LGI |
| P.S. Since it will be hard to play all maps here, i suggest one map per author. |
| GRC-DeathLink |
| I also think that everyone should comment on their own maps when submitting them, saying what they had in mind when making it, why they think its balanced, and why it should be motw. |
| lnept |
| ok so by friday, we decide the four best maps out of the ones submitted, then we have 2 days to write newspost and inform people of tournament on sunday and we use the maps ( you can get your own replays seperately as well) then we will have the map that played the best by Monday and we post it. |
| ScoutWBF |
| Well I thought about a map that changes to a macro map when the natural and mineral only is taken. It is a pretty standart map because many players are scared of experimental or air maps. The only problem is the look but I will change it in the next days. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Disruption ftw. I've played it, it's nice. Very good map imo. I'd have added it last week, but went with the twilight party thing =/ |
| MilleniumArmy |
| Oh whoops, are we suppose to only submit one map? |
| LGI |
| Nightmarjoo, did you read my last post on Disruptiom? Read it. |
| NastyMarine |
| Different differences dont mean positional balances, it just means that the distances are different and players have to adapt depending on what they want to do. A positional balance is LT, all the positions have different tactical points which is/can be cool but imbalanced for alot of match ups none the less. The distances dont vary much anyway. Think of most maps, even gaia, have different distances, and no one really says there are major positional imbas except for the backdoor nats.. which is debatable. |
| NastyMarine |
| Different *Distances* dont mean... |
| lnept |
| nastymarine, read my comment now. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| different distances do mean positional imbalance most of the time, however most of our best maps even have them. The best way to fix pos imba is by making completely symetrical maps with inverted ramps or just lowground or just highground; essentially more of the same boring concepts. Distance pos imba is almost an inevitability. I would say generally speaking distance imba can be negligible unless it is too severe that it could mean death to be in one position =/ |
| NastyMarine |
| correct, suttin like LT, but a map like Distruption doesnt have extreme tactical differences. If it had different positions with all different distances and terrain, i'd say differnet. but there is no major flaw atm. |
| LGI |
| Well on Distruption as a zerg how i will know if go FE or not? My ove won't be that fast as LT 3 and 12 o'clock to scout and know if i should go FE or not. Couse if go FE and he spawn right next to me - i am dead. Whith few probes toss can do wonders... The is vs terran. They are actually strogner... And here is the other option. I don't go of FE and his in cross pos. WTF?! So players must play here risky and prare? |
| flothefreak |
| who added my two ash maps? 3sp would need a redo, magma veins should be tested as well (although i dont think it works out) |
| LostTampon |
| LGI, you can fast scout with a drone |
| LGI |
| Well i won't when i am going on 9 hatch FE. I need every mineral that i can suck from the game... For that i have an ove. |
| LostTampon |
| but a scouting drone is worth the minerals you lose... i have seen a lot of games even on 2 player maps where the zerg is scouting with a drone although he knows the enemy position - so he can adapt to the enemies strategy |
| lnept |
| just send a drone cross position. there you know whether to FE or not. if you cant 9 hatch FE adapt to map rofl?? |
| Nightmarjoo |
| 12pool is safe and doesn't slow you much in any mu if you don't want to FE -.- |
| lnept |
| 12 pool is asking to get raped by a 9/9 gate though. they just bring 4 probes, gg no expo 4 u |
| LGI |
| Second :) . Usually when i am asking to get raped on 12 pool is when i play safe in my base... |
| flothefreak |
| well, going 9dual gate is kinda do-or-die, too :D |
| LGI |
| It's also kinda save your ass from mass lings on a map whitout ramp. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| what? If I don't feel safe 12hatch FEing and don't want to 2hatch in main (zvt if I expect a bunk rush for some reason mostly) I'll 12pool. Also if I forgot to 9hatch 9 ovy 9pool in zvp but are afraid of a 2gate rush I'll 12pool to FE, it never fucks up oO |
| lnept |
| well either people start picking 4 maps for the tourney from here, or go with the mappack i posetd in thread or you can make some modifications or w/e |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Tengu, NCF, Disruption, and Spirallianz are my picks. A 3 player map a 2 player map and 2 4 player maps will work imo. Also those are the maps I'm favouring of this motw list. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Chainsaw is good too |
| lnept |
| ok id pick disruption, NCF, chainsaw, and lovocla/rocket undecided |
| GRC-DeathLink |
| My votes are close to Inept's votes, New Chaos Factor, Chain-saw and Lovocla. |
| MilleniumArmy |
| I dont think the voting system where we only pick one map is good. We should stick to the old 1st,2nd, 3rd pick votes that we did a long time ago. It's much more fair that way. |
| lnept |
| were trying a new system. ignore the voting for now. were picking 4 maps to use for the tournament, then we vote on the one that played the best. so for now we have to narrow these down to 4 before sunday. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Don't ignore the vote. For people who can't show for the tourny I don't want to discourage their showing of which map they like... Millenium I like the old system better too, but let's not fuck over panschk's hard work with making this voting system. Also with the current bwm participation levels reverting to the old system would only hurt things imo. |
| PsychoTEMPlar |
| So modest Inept lol =P Tengu (really like), Wonder, Chainsaw, and Spirallianz. I really like my map, but that's clearly biased lol :) |
| LostTampon |
| Spirallianz, Wonder, NCF, Chainsaw |
| LostTampon |
| btw: would be nice if we can test some maps in 2on2 also... |
| flothefreak |
| hm NCF of course wonder droid chainsaw |
| ScoutWBF |
| Wish Tengu That's it for me. Chainsaw is horribly imbalanced,just by the way. |
| MilleniumArmy |
| care to explain why? |
| lnept |
| he says chainsaw is imbalanced but picks tengu....oh the irony |
| Nightmarjoo |
| In no particular order: are the maps people have said they liked the most. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I removed the other maps which had no consideration. Sorry lnept, I took out rocket too. If lovocla doesn't get more attention I'll remove it too. I'm considering not having a tourny, but suggesting that everyone meet sunday to test maps anyway. The tournies aren't bringing more players, nor are they coming up with replays. Also the organization takes a long time. With no tourny we can have constant testing without worries about "zomg who I play??" "And wtf my foe was just on where he go??" And "zomg I Won 1-0 I'm not playing another game til you come back from the bathroom and update the brackets accordingly ignoring the fact that I could play another game in the meantime or actually update the bracket myself" |
| Nightmarjoo |
| er btw |
| NastyMarine |
| oh noes! no nastymarine maps :( |
| NastyMarine |
| nvm i didnt submit my maps nor did anyone else :D |
| PsychoTEMPlar |
| "ok id pick disruption, NCF, chainsaw, and lovocla..." "My votes are close to Inept's votes, New Chaos Factor, Chain-saw and Lovocla." I count two. WTF is with everyone and NCF? Old map with some mediocre changes =/ |
| Antares |
| so we should name 4 maps? then lovocla, disruption, spirallianz and wonder |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hmm I spose I can say lovacla has 2, but lnept said he was undecided. Antares votes for it anyway so it has at least 2 now^^ Anyways, it stays on the list. |
| LGI |
| • (2)New Chaos Factor • (4)Chain-saw 1.1 • (3)Tengu Premissis • (4)Spirallianz |
| LostTampon |
| hm next time i vote my own map too :/ |
| LGI |
| What should i do? Lie and say that i like and think that other map is better? From all above those are the only four that i like. Otherwise if i don't count mine i can only point three maps. |
| LostTampon |
| no, i just wanted to point out that some didnt vote for their own maps because they thought its bm to do so :) |
| LGI |
| I guess then me, flothrefreak, ScoutWBF are BM. Also NastyMarine is BM. His maps are not submited, so he deside to skip the voting even when he knows that we need all votes from every map maker... |
| LostTampon |
| erm, calm down plz... if it was too offensive written by me then sry, but i think you know what i mean |
| decafchicken |
| -New Chaos factor -Tengu Premissis I'm up for writing the report for this week for the first time since summer if you want :) |
| LGI |
| Don't worry LostTampon it's ok, you are in my love list anyway... |
| LostTampon |
| LGI <3 |
| Listoric |
| I just quote myself on my vote: "What i like best somehow, are the 3 extra gas expansions, that lie differently. That adds some variety to gameplay thorugh startpoints, but while the top gas expansion is easy to secure with the min-only the gas exp on right hand side is very open." |
| LGI |
| Listoric, it would be nice if you read the whole new idea for the MotW and point three more maps. |
| NastyMarine |
| The problem is, is i cant make up my mind up on which map(s) to vote for. The ones I am looking at are unique in their own way yet one has to be chosen. hmm |
| NastyMarine |
| yea, umm i havent voted yet b/c i cant make up my mind, not b/c my map(s) arent in this week. GG for being an ass. Just cant make up my mind nut. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I didn't like chain-saw nor NCF nor Spirallianz much from playing them. Spirallianz I didn't get enough playing on (nor in good matchups, zvz hardly tests a map), and it might be ok. I like tengu, but tk has yet to test tvp on it so it's not getting my vote. Disruption still has my love. |
| LGI |
| Wohoo, MilleniumArmy is in the BM crew :D |
| LGI |
| From Chain-saw, NCF and Tegnu - tegnu plays best. Chain-saw is the best on a look, but i don't feel it right in game. But thats just me. NCF still seems T>Z . |
| GRC-DeathLink |
| Imo spiral and chainsaw are probably the most balanced maps to play, but they need to be updated (I have posted some comments in each map topic). Tengu I just don't like at all (sorry) but it screams out "Tau Clone"... 3 bases (exact same position as Tau), ice tileset, similar expo layout, bridges everywhere, I just don't see how its different in any way. I believe spiral and chainsaw should be updated cause of all the issues, then I'll vote. |
| lnept |
| lol if tengu ever became motw i leave this site asap. ugliest lookin thing ever the minerals suck and its just 3 bases with a million bridges whoop dee doo |
| LGI |
| Well i already explain why i pick it. I am also not happy whit my pick... |
| GRC-DeathLink |
| If anyone is interested, I'll be online today (18/12) at around 8 CET for some games. Whoever wants to hang around and test these maps msg me. If we can gather a few players we could test all matchups. |
| tktkvroom |
| T_T |
| Nightmarjoo |
| don't be such an asshole about tengu... It's not motw material clearly but so what? It's his best map clearly and hopefully a sign of better to come. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Disruption for the win anyway. |
| ScoutWBF |
| Nothing is more gay than willing with a depot instead of a barracks. T_T |
| Nightmarjoo |
| except your mom! |
| Nightmarjoo |
| you can wall with a rax anyway if you want stupid |
| ScoutWBF |
| But is it safe? |
| teh one |
| is this a weekly competition for a best map of the week that you guys make? I really like the snow one, mainly because I dont see many good snow maps to play on & dont see many good snow maps. If anyone else submits a snow map I'd probably vote for it to ^_^v btw can I submit my recent map to this? |
| LGI |
| I think it's better for you first to gather some skills and experinence in map making, before submiting a map here. But it will be good for you to check this competition every week and learn from the others to see what a map need to become a MotW. |
| decafchicken |
| So who wins. |
| tktkvroom |
| you win |
| Nightmarjoo |
| rofl old granny in a wheelchair voted :) |
| tktkvroom |
| rofl nighmar is a staller |
| tktkvroom |
| rofl nighmar is a staller |
| Nightmarjoo |
| anyone against tengu being motw? |
| tktkvroom |
| yeah you |
| lnept |
| its now 5-5 so yea. |
| LGI |
| Go ahead it will be TKTKVROOM's first map being MotW, and at least it's his best :) . I don't see anything wrong if becomes MotW, it doesn't have any issues or problems. The only problem that might be will be in balance in some MU's, but every MotW have the same problems, so it's not count as a problem :) . |
| Listoric |
| (4)Disruption then |
| tktkvroom |
| LGI makes alot of sense <3 |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hmm no offense to teh one but I don't think he's really experienced enough in mapping yet for his vote to really matter here; also trcc voted Disruption and Listoric said Disruption as well, they are senior mappers and their vote is very significant. Antares has made motw more than once I believe and is an old mapper here, lnept is terrible mapper but I respect his opinions on maps because he knows how they work in game, nasty voted disruption and he's been here forever too. Scout voted Tengu, and like lnept I respect his view of maps for gameplay, templar voted Tengu, LGI an old mapper voted Tengu, and decaf, another old mapper voted Tengu. If you count Listoric's comment as a vote then Disruption is winning, even if you keep teh one's vote. From playing both maps I prefer Disruption, its layout is simpler and the gameplay and movement is more continuous; Tengu has so many paths it can be hard to sit in one place for any duration, at the same time it can almost be hard to flank since they can run away in so many different directions. I and others had comments about Tengu might being p>t, I don't think this is true. My testing showed nothing of the sort, and from theory crafting terran is at no disadvantage from the many paths, if you notice none of the expos are in that huge middle, t can stay on the outside where the expos are. I tested both maps with a non bwm friend, and he prefered Disruption, he liked its expo layout better. When I played with DeA (Deathlink) he said he was no fan of Tengu for being so similar to Tau, he thought there was too much snow, and hated the mineral formations. Also in the UNtour thing he was able to push a drone over the cliff and make a hatch in my main, that's kinda awkward. I like both maps, they are both good, but I prefer Disruption, it feels better in game. My main concern with Tengu is not the stuff DeA said, but the positional imbalances of distance. Teal's main is very awkward, and W's main is awkward too for length; his path from main to nat is longer than the others. I don't think this pos imba is that serious, but it is a strike against it. The mineral formations are no problem to change, and it would be effortless to edit out some snow (for the eyes), and the pos imba are pretty insigificant, and the map is very good for a 3 player map. Probably one of the best 3 player maps considering balance. Both maps are good, there really are no big problems in either map. |
| LGI |
| I vote for Tengu, just because i know what is the feel to have your first MotW, somehow tktvroom reminds me back... I actually don't care which one of those two will become MotW. About "Also in the UNtour thing he was able to push a drone over the cliff and make a hatch in my main, that's kinda awkward." - Not true! He enter in your main trough your choke ;) . Anyway it will be easyer if you just make (4)Spirallianz MotW :) . And btw Droid is also a really nice map, i don't know why i haven't see it earlyer... |
| tktkvroom |
| obviously Nightmar is against me on this so, just give him the victor, who knows I might make a map with motw material some day |
| LGI |
| obviusly nightmar is against me... He doesn't like Spirallianz :/ |
| lnept |
| i suppose im a bad mapper, but i just like opening up new ideas instead of making super leet designs in the center :( |
| Nightmarjoo |
| One of the things that bothers me is how much tk is pushing for motw; losttampon isn't screaming make my map motw now! and it's bugging me that tk keeps shouting at me to make tengu motw =/ I'll post tengu as motw sometime today I spose. |
| tktkvroom |
| I told you y, I need something to be proud of, & this is like my 1st good map that ppl have actualy voted for. & Losttampon is a pimp he's got motw already |
| GRC-DeathLink |
| I have voted for Disruption. Sorry tk but the map is so much the same as Tau Cross, I just can't figure out why it should become MOTW. Imagine me making Luna but instead of the ramps going anti-clockwise I'll make it go clockwise. Then I'll post it for MOTW. Things don't really work out that way. I'm not saying that the map sucks, it's quite ok but it's just the fact that its exactly the same that bugs me. |
| lnept |
| i dont really mind the tau cross thing, just that it doesnt really look good and the positional imbalance is glaring, and it doesnt offer really any change in structure of a map |
| LGI |
| Like Disruption don't have pos imbalance? |
| lnept |
| disruption positional balance is fixable with adaptation, tengu's isnt. You can vary builds, but you cant stop your path from being tighter then a diferent bases. Not to mention some are more tankable |
| lnept |
| well disruption is now ahead in votes so it is now your turn to argue for tengu ^^ |
| LGI |
| (4)Disruption do not have obz version ghihihi owned :P |
| tktkvroom |
| Its just like whatever for me now. Just wish Nightmar would have made Tengu motw the day he said he would T_T >,< |
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