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♠• MotW 2006.12 •♠
| deadline to enter maps: 2006, 03, 17 (Year, month, day) |
 "James! The same procedure as every year...ehm, week!" |
Comments:
| flothefreak |
| LGI WAS HERE |
| LGI |
| Flo The Freak was here too :D |
| LGI |
| Well since i didn't had any luck last week i realise that i should submit only my maps :) |
| inept |
| teh pimpage |
| flothefreak |
| hm...should i add trench warfare a 3rd time? ~~ |
| inept |
| no add enemy at the gates ^^ |
| epidiOn |
| Don't know who added it, but I updated Leviathan. Just added a min only closer to the nat. |
| Starparty |
| lgi, its supposed to be "floatfreak" |
| LGI |
| Don't scare me pleace... I tought that i've start making the same mistake as before... :))) I even feel guilty for calling flothefreak - floatfreak :) |
| epidiOn |
| Haha! When was this? I didn't know you used to call him floatfreak... that rocks. |
| LGI |
| First 2-3 weeks since i land on this place :) |
| flo |
| yah and i corrected him everytime but he didn't stop^^ |
| yenku |
| Woah, no Jungle, Badlands or Space... LGI's maps rock. Leviathan is up there too. Well I cant decide if shifting sands is 4 or 3 player map ;P I think parts of riskII just seem seperated from the rest of the map, I dont think it would flow well. Doughnut looks ok, but I think it will play too much like (2)Pirate Love by valug. |
| flothefreak |
| which has been played one time so far. at least, there is only 1 replay that could tell you the gameplay of Pirate Love. so what are you referring to, which part of the gameplay is bad? i don't see where your arguments come from or on what it is based |
| MillenniumArmy |
| Play like pirate love?? I really can't see a significant similarity between the two... o.O Well anyways, other than my map, the other two maps I like are osom and Leviathan |
| Starparty |
| krator is fun |
| LGI |
| I just don't see how zerg can survive on Krator... |
| flothefreak |
| ya, seems z hostile. pvz should still go because zerg can harass a lot, but you won't be able to harass terran enough to keep him off his isles. plus, you can't FE and your first expo is gasless... |
| Antares |
| i will surely not vote on a spacemap :) |
| Arden(WoF) |
| No space maps have been submitted yet, wee! |
| epidiOn |
| These tilesets crack me up. Ice and Desert?! WOW! |
| inept |
| hm zvt maybe on krator try a 9 pool into lurker rush...besides that no idea. maybe put a ramp to the island next to the bases? that would even zvt out maybe...and i dont think terran having 2 gas bases in one is really a big deal. dont really think krator is motw quality though :) |
| MillenniumArmy |
| Ice terrain pwns :P |
| Starparty |
| could be good to add a map too.. i havnt participaded in like 3 months :P |
| Arden(WoF) |
| Ice terrain certainly does not pwn -.-, but it's nice that flo's competition has brought back the forgotten tilset. |
| inept |
| what i hate about ice terrain is that you cant put different terrains close to eachother, theres always a gap. like snow and outpost for example, water and snow, etc.. |
| panschk[FP] |
| naruto is teh sexyness <3 |
| NastyMarine |
| why dont we jus give SP a motw spot for every map he makes? gg no re... |
| inept |
| naruto is ugly |
| flothefreak |
| well, naruto probably will have the same problem in tvp as requiem had... the map itself is a bit more terran-friendly (some cliffs, smaller paths), but esp. due to it being a 2-playermap (so p knows where t spawns), protoss will own terrans with goon rushes very often |
| flothefreak |
| added bonecrusher, it's just different from the other maps so it might have the outsider-chances :P |
| MillenniumArmy |
| awww, you broke the broodwar maps only trend :P |
| inept |
| deadline ;; |
| IA-Sky |
| OMG let me enter my map, its done |
| NastyMarine |
| 1)Winter Devils 2)Leviathan 3)Doughnut best maps this motw imo -Risk II is honorable mention |
| flothefreak |
| naruto looks good, but i don't think it plays interesting... so it's bonecrusher, leviathan and doughnut. those are a) mine or b) interesting :P |
| inept |
| Doughnot Krator Osom |
| Antares |
| 1. doughnut 2. darinas feeling 3. naruto |
| epidiOn |
| 1. Leviathan 2. Doughnut 3. Risky II (haha this was the one that showed up in the 'random map' thing and I ended up liking it :P) |
| inept |
| it says risky is a pro map though...lol i dont think it can win r |
| LGI |
| (2)Osom (4)Darina's Feelings (2)Doughnut |
| MillenniumArmy |
| (2)Doughnut (2)Leviathan (2)Osom or (4)Winter Devils |
| NastyMarine |
| plz vote for me and get me a motw!!!! :) haha |
| inept |
| no chance really, doughnot has this easily... might as well end it right now |
| Starparty |
| that sux :( to me doughnot is really boring and awkward with the center twisted in comparison to the bases.. |
| LGI |
| I don't know... Before one month i had 99% feeling that "map-X" or "map-Y" will be the winner. Now the votes are so strange... Somehow i don't see a taste for new things, elements, etc anymore by the mappers... People just got back from the begining. It's always standart maps, nothing new really... And don't get me wrong, i am not talking about the picture, i am talking about the gameplay. All this is really sad for me. Not because you don't pick (2)Osom (for example) this week. I am talking about that i don't maps like this one from other authors. I only see a map that 90% of the elements are taken from here, and here... In short words +1 clone map... |
| flothefreak |
| oh come on only because your "original maps" are not executed good enough to compete with well done standard maps (leviathan doughnut naruto are sooooooo standard -.-) you're not supposed to act like mosq you can't re-invent broodwarmaps, you don't have the skill for this. neither do I. or somebody else. the closest approach to a "new" broodwar was trcc with his permafrost - it's not perfect, but he went fuckin far with his map, which i guess none could have done similar. but that might just be coincidence, dunno. so integrating a few new ideas per map might be okay, which is done in some of the maps above, and which makes them NOT standard. |
| Arden(WoF) |
| I think Darina's feelings plays a lot different from these other standard ones. The gameplay is actually a bit exciting. The sunken paths are taken advantage of most of the time, yet there is another path rich with expos to fight over. I think Darina's Feelings deserves it. Gogo LGI's gf! |
| inept |
| i like darina's feelings but there is a glaring problem to me with the sunken ground between bottom bases. If this is the normal route...it is very close and cramped. |
| inept |
| krator is fairly odd LGI, if you are looking for something unstandard |
| LGI |
| Give me some replays Zerg vs The Rest, and show me how zerg is standing on this map then i will change my mind. I can also write "Osom is fairly odd, inept, but do you see how zerg can go FE safe and he also have GAS there?". I really look for some new staff, but every map have some 100% rules that you should make to be liked by most of the people. I point those things in the PGTour interview. Most of you also know what i am talking about. |
| Arden(WoF) |
| Has there ever been a pimped map that recieved MOTW? I don't think there has. And there is a reason for it. Inept created the general concept of the map, but Starparty made it interesting. It would never make MOTW without starparty's help, so I feel that credit should be shared if it did get MOTW. |
| flothefreak |
| well, jade zone was on old map of mine which SP pimped, and it almost got MOTW |
| flothefreak |
| i just counted, it's doughnut so far that won't change as long as none else important postes :p it's quite interesting, too. even if i had liked seeing levi some more than it. |
| epidiOn |
| I'd argue a bit with LGI about Leviathan. When I first drew it out, my point was to shift the battlefield from the absolute center of the map towards the top/bottom and left/right sides, and I think it has worked out okay. So I think that is _sort of_ a different idea than a standard map. I suppose that, other than that, it is pretty standard. |
| inept |
| oh if krator was to receive motw id give starparty 3/4 credit, concept doesnt count for much as its not really my map zerg can actually own on krator with the small distance. do a 9 pool fast lair 4 lurkers... i dont know how i could get a rep of this unless some one wants to play it |
| NastyMarine |
| NO ONE EMBRACES NEW IDEAS sry LGI GG NO RE so far doughnut shuld get it.. its interesting.. but the only thing is that i wanna see a rep of all m/u on it.. and not 10min games either.. games that show the maps potential. which no1 does.. the only maps that i see get reps are sattarchasm and maps that have been shown up in gg.net etc.. other than that there is no team work on this site (sry to say it but its true) what we shuld do is meet up dooring the weeekends and test these SOBs out.. |
| NastyMarine |
| for the record i like Osom but its too complicated looking so there is no motivation to play it. |
| flothefreak |
| well i would play against team- and clanmates if my router would lemme host games. and it's too much work for most allies to get a map from this page... just before BWCL this evening, I wanted to play a game on winter devils, i even took the direkt link into my profile...but they were too lazy to download and host it. if i just had opened it, it would have been no problem, though. i am really thinking of buying a new router - one that CAN be configured. |
| Arden(WoF) |
| So doughnut then? He'll have my vote, I say he deserves it, and it's a pretty interesting map. I know I've been back and forth with darina, but darina has no chance... sry LGI =/. Gogo doughnut! |
| Falcon_A |
| 1)Darinas Feelings 2)Naruto 3)Doughnut |
| LGI |
| Traitor! :( |
| Listoric |
| Hmmm.... actually i'm not into any of the maps sugguested these week. Only one i see as interesting is Osom by LGI. It really felt weird at the first look, but it reminds me of Namga Iyagi (or whatever the name was -_-) for 2, because of the lower natural and highround in the center. But with the walkable "cliff" behind the natural, as well as the main (wtf?) it's to T-ish. Terran does not even have to walk up that close to natural cliff to hit the minerals from a save spot, even saving the ramps, as well as marines have an easy going early. Except these two massive problems i see in this map (really a cliff at the mainbase is a total no-no), the details, the battlefield and the expansions are well made. With some changes, the map is MotW worthy in my eyes. Dougnut's distance between bases is just as huge as on Velocity, which just isn't good imo. Still i also like the concept, even if it's quite simple. I'd actually prefer to see an updated version of Osom as MotW, because it's very interesting, but, doughnut is definitely the safer choice, in gameplay and peoples reactions. ----- I really like your effort in being creative and innovative LGI, i hope you know this. If not, now you know it ^^ But i just repeat myself as i did a lot before in a shortened form: "Some ideas never make it, because they suck." A cliff behind the mainbase minerals is just a nono in my eyes. Imagine 2 dropships: 1 with a tank, rines and medic; 1 with tank rines and a scv. It's easy to take out goons without dropping near them, and then dropping the second DS with everything on that cliff to - maybe not kill - but be a certain danger for a longer period of time. it'S distracting and you may lose just because of that gay cliff, almost not walkable and it's like a bad battlefield at all. (sorry, i'm tired so my english is kinda weird) There are like thousand theorys about this i bet, and some say it works, other say it doesnt. I don'T want to argue about the fact that it may work like it is now, still, for most of the players, it doesn't. And that is somehow important. It's like "creating the best map ever" and noone plays it O_o Still, as i'm writing this, i had an idea i never had before or seen before, and THAT's what these ideas, these useless bullshit bla ideas are for. If you try something that's total bullshit, maybe someone else has the same or better idea. So, here's what i had in mind. Maybe someone else already craeted it but for me it's new. Think about Ride of Valkyries, thing abour the "ramps" used as "hills". Now think about a "hill" out of a giant ramp behind the mainminerals. You'd have the dropping hill, unseen if not scouted, the advantage of high over lowground, the dropping space, and, most of all, easy defendable, if done right. Or, think about this cliff being bigger, with an expansion on it. So, thx to LGI for opening my mind, i really made this up while i'm writing that comment - think it's worth creating or experimenting with it. O_o |
| LGI |
| I will try to chnage some things, thx for the comment and suggestions. I also think of some terran advantages on this map, while i make the updates, and for the walkable cliff over the first nat i said to myself (in the first version) : "Hey why this cliff is so big, and it's dropable? I better make it walkable, so terran players can go for this fish and while he is protecting his tanks with rines, i will go to his base and rape him, because the distance is short enought on this map to do that." So this was my point... I still think that it's like this, but i can't proove it, and i might be very wrong about this, more discuss will help, but gaming i will help most i guess. In the end, if i can't fix all the issues, and if it's not looking "well drawed" enought, like i said before... Take the map, do it right, there will be credit for everyone. We better make a map together instead of publishing half made maps every day. |
| Listoric |
| I don't really know how to change it (i tried but i'm to tired right now) bu i will make a map of my own for the next MotW Comp i think, just to have something you can blast into pieces :) |
| Starparty |
| if an admin ever would use veto to decide winner, this would be a good occasion :P |
| flothefreak |
| i counted, it's doughnut, or whatever it's spelled |
| decafchicken |
| Risky II Darina's Osom -1 for doughnot as veto ;) |
| LGI |
| Ok, put Darina as my first vote then Osom, just to be anoying for you... Even if i like Osom more :) Anyway the real Darina votes for Darina so... :)))))))))) And she will probebly kill me if she knows that i vote for Osom not for Darina... :) |
| inept |
| risky II is a pro map though... |
| LGI |
| Both of the paths around the center paths need to have wider entrances and exits and i think it would be more mobile and better for this map. Overall it's a nice map. |
| decafchicken |
| Really? i've never seen it before =O |
| LGI |
| Can someone count the votes as me like last week? Imo, if Arden gives his vote back to Darina it will be a draw... Anyway i don't want his vote back if he thinks that (2)Doughnot is the better map and should win. But his argument to change his vote was very... How should i say? Not an argument at all... |
| LGI |
| I hope you remember how i count them... Map/Vote/Nickname |
| flothefreak |
| i counted like this: if there was no specific order (like, "i vote map A, D and F" or "i choose A"), each map got 2 points. with a ranking, 1st place got 3, 2nd got 2, 3rd got 1 point. if only 2 were ranked, i regarded as "dropped the 3rd map". doughnut had 2-3 or so votes more than leviathan in the end. |
| Listoric |
| Actually, if i look at doughnut, i kinda loose the sight for starcraft and switch to Dawn of War. it totally reminds me of a Dow map. Anyway, it has a lot of votes, it seems a s a good map, make it motw then... we're always late the last weeks ^^ I'm not totally happy with this weeks outcome, but i think doughnut is an interesting map to play on. |
| LGI |
| Just tell me in what MotW system we will work in future... |
| lnept |
| last week had a ton of good maps and now there all gone, shitty week. |
| decafchicken |
| how about we get a polling system? |
| flothefreak |
| limited to admins then please... just look at the spammers at the rating 8[ |
| lnept |
| that would reduce the amount of people that can vote to like six people though |
| LGI |
| The problem with the admins is that most of them don't give their vote really... Where is Starparty's vote? Where is Spitfire's vote? Where is trcc's vote? Travin? XuuL? And the votes from Panshck and Listoric everytime are not very clear. Can't you just write 1, 2, 3 with some comment ofcourse? Anyway about the MotW system. Last week i give 1 point for first place 0 points for second and 0 points for third. This week i understand that flothefreak is going to absolutly another system... I wonder if i count last week, what would it really be... |
| flothefreak |
| well, if there are only 2 maps competing, you actually have to see where it was 1st, 2nd and 3rd place...only going for 1)s is not reasonable imo. |
| LGI |
| Your are just coping my toughts before sever weeks. But then nobody say anything about this. I just cout the map votes as the system that you use this week. But it's totaly not fair one week we use new system, the other week we use old system. Depends on your personal view, maybe? Sorry i don't want to be anoyng but this is a fact... |
| Listoric |
| Actually, the only fact is that the one who writes the article has the hard decision. And i actually don't know why "...look at doughnut...it has a lot of votes, it seems as a good map, make it motw then" should not be clear? It's "just" a Map of the Week. We are responsible for it being a good and balanced map, that's fact. Also fact is that Doughnut is mentioned the most, so the overall idea of it is that this map seems to be liked - because of several facts - so why not make it MotW then? Dunno what the problem is really. The map with the most votes, mentionings, good reactions should get MotW. If you feel like mentioning 3 maps because they are all MotW worthy in your eyes, then do so. I do so too. If i think 4 maps are head to head, i simply tell you guys exactly that. If Starparty thinks only one map is good, or even is against a map, then count that too. It's not a science and the world won't explode if the MotW isn't the mega uber super blast this week. Doughnut is an interesting map, it's fresh, it's MotW worthy. Fullstop. Thx. I would write the comment myself if i had not to fight against the Dawn of War pathfinding which is hilarious. It took me 5 hours to fix the problem due rebuilding half of the map. Just to have my second Dow map done so that it can be included into the DowPro mod - which is a game balance mod with awesome ideas and new shit that is just brilliant. I have to organize a showmatch for friday. I'm running a wallpaper contest also. I have to look thorugh the Dow.de Forum and check if people hate each other once again. I have to do boring Admin stuff after i'm the only Admin online there at the moment. And so on and so forth... actually, i could have writen the post after i'm spending at least the same time here explaining to you why i can't O_o. Still, i'm totally busy, and kinda burned out. It's 3:52 am and i really should go to sleep now... Hope you got it. |
| LGI |
| "Dunno what the problem is really." The problem is that since i am here i liked 99% of the maps that are picked for a MotW. Recently everything go all wrong. Nobody play the future MotW map, nobody post any replays, but sure why don't we make the map MotW, and after someone play it because it will get some newsposts the whole discussion and wating time on a MotW will be fucked up, because of a gameplay. And... forget it... Ok, here is what i think about (2)Doughnut. First people should realise that two paths to each other is not a good move at all. There should be one/three/five, not two/four... The reason is very simple - PATHFINDING! Where the fuck is boongee to point the "GAY PATHFINDING" as it was on (2)Lost Souls Depot. I ask "Why gay pathfinding?". And he proove me that i am wrong, because the forces are going only from one side, and the other side is more hidden, wich makes the expands there more hidden. So what do you see in the picture right now? GAY PATHFINDING! LONG GAY DISTANCE between players. Wich make me at least to keep (2)Lost Souls Depot for my fun collection and i don't even try to submit it into this contest, just because it's not fair to put a map with such a long distance. But "Hey why don't we make a MotW (2)Velocity. Why don't we make a MotW another map with long distance, it's |
| LGI |
| Oh crap... ... it's not a space map, so it will be fresh. And the newbs won't notice that the pathfinding is only from one side." Don't you guys think that when this map gets MotW, the map will be played sooner or later by gosu players. Like those who play on the MotW tourney. They will play a map like this. And the result will be: first game - fine, second game - hmmm... fine, third game - HEY WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS MAP?! It will be only a matther of time to people discover the issues on the map. Thats why i hate most of the pro maps. Every pro map got an issue. But in this case we have many articles, and many discussions so people should learn how to fix their issues. Not to mantion how many suggestions the mappers give. SO, NO! I DON'T WANT THIS MAP TO BE A MOTW! I just want to end this bad chosing. I am not talking only about the map that gets MotW with most points. I am talking to second place, some times to third place... Even if the second or third map gets a MotW the result will be the same. AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT MAPPERS DON'T TEST THEIR MAPS! AND THEY DON'T PLAY THEM! WTF, am i? The only fucking fish that he plays his maps? |
| LGI |
| Hope you get it... |
| LGI |
| Also the theorcraft here is WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH! You know what should be one of the most important things in gameplay? To make a player feel confortable on your map, to make the map floathing. Most of the players don't even see the big jpgs that we make so good. And i will give you a little example of what am a saying... When i make Grapes of Wrath i just love it! Everything seems fine to me, balance, bla-bla, everything! After i play some games on the map i realise that when i get down of the cliff it's not very comfortable for a player wich destroyes a part of the gameplay and the good feel of playing. But it seems fine on the picture right? I even got the same feel in Hocus Peakus. And because i start this, i want to point that maps like Azax Syndrome, Kin Dza Dza and Darina's Feelings got the good and comfortable feel on the whole map, wich makes it good for me in gameplay and i am happy with it. |
| MillenniumArmy |
| LGI, I can understand the long distance issue in doughnut, but I am really going to have to disagree with you about the two path thing... Yes I do test the maps. It turns out that the units go along the bottom paths. Sure, that would mean the topside is more "hidden" but does this put one side at more of a disadvantage than the other? Does this one path pose any balance problems when it comes to expansions and/or fighting and flanking space? Pathfinding is only a problem if and only if it creates imbalances between the two sides. For instance, in your Lost Souls Depot map, originally the pathfinding was towards the very left side of the map. If we erased EVERYTHING on that map except for that one path, would the map be very balanced? No it wouldn't. There's quite a noticeable discrepancy in the fighting space size along that path, as well as the number of expos. Now erase the top portion of doughnut. Balance is still achieved just from the bottom path. Each size has equal expansion sites, equal fighting space, and equal opportunities to expand to the middle expo. Just by using the lower paths on the map doesn't pose any balance problems that I see. That's just my opinion. |
| LGI |
| With all those articles an author that has read them should know how to make a good map without such issues. Some of the issues can't even be fixed after we see the final look of the map, but then we should face that we failed and try another map. And if we have other maps without any issues that also plays good why they should at least have a leading point in front of your map. Like i said, i really don't want this map to be the next MotW. Nothing against you, really, i even like you, but recently i just don't like what people pick for a MotW. Ofcourse it's their taste, but i see how you are making just bad moves letly, that are not making BWMN more evoluting, as someone even made a topic on this... |
| inept |
| its not that doughnut is a great map, there is just nothing else anyway to pick from this week. |
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