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MOTM 7.07
| deadline to enter maps: 2007, 07, 30 (Year, month, day) |
| It's July already, let's get some submition action going on. Deadline is the 12th, it's early so that we can get votes in earlier so Avaton doesn't come during the next month if at all. You have about a week for submitting maps. |
Comments:
| ProTosS4EveR |
| Haha, i drew 5 maps on paper and when i will be back to home i will make them, they rox on the paper :d Oops i wrote 2047... Wanted to write 2247! :( modified by ProTosS4EveR |
| ptar |
| Uploaded Eres. Do you think i should add Battle Marshes too? I think it got some capabilty. |
| NastyMarine |
| thx panschk for adding edit button in the comp thread!! :) shall i add a map of mine?? |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Don't just add a map to be adding maps. Shit like that is what began to hurt MOTW. Only hard-worked on maps should be uploaded, with the intent of having several very good maps to choose from. |
| Testbug |
| yeah! battle marshes but not Eres. isn't eres a normal map? (don't worry, now i can edid this message later!!!!!) ProTosS4EveR change Black Hawks picture and submit it again :( i want Black Hawk to win ;_; modified by Testbug |
| ptar |
| k, added Battle Marshes. I worked hard on it and i think it could get some votes. I added Eres, cuz i think the gameplay is a lil bit standard, but you have to improvise a lot. Ofc it's a normal map, but it's fun to play. |
| flothefreak |
| eres is a very nice map. i actually dont know why it doesnt break a wave of emotion loose. strange. |
| ptar |
| No more maps? only 7. We have to make some more good ones, if we want this a real competition. |
| Crackling |
| updated MORE gosu version of Iron Flush comiing soon ;D |
| Testbug |
| u rlly think iron flush can win a motw thing? i'll finish it this weekend. u upload it if you like the new version. |
| Crackling |
| come on its best map ever :D |
| ptar |
| I think Iron Flush can win this with ez, if no more maps are added. I think it's the best of all maps, wich were submitted. |
| Crackling |
| :O onoz if it wins i gonna orgasm ;d |
| ptar |
| lol @ crackling Are you an MOTM fetishist? |
| Crackling |
| yes.. xD |
| Testbug |
| damn crackling you submited it 2 times? i was making a MOTM7 on space platform. i show some pics to nightmarjoo. i was using some testbug copy/paste :( don't know if i can finish it in 4 days. i usualy take about 2 months testing a map :( |
| Crackling |
| no i submitted it only 1 time oO |
| ptar |
| Maybe you've pressed f5 and it has uploaded it again? |
| Crackling |
| dunno xD just remove one :) |
| Testbug |
| deadline ends today? or at the end of day 12? |
| Moebius |
| Zomg I'm on the list?! Breach Point won't win though...is it too late to go back through and make changes? |
| Testbug |
| yeah, go and make some chages, gogo! |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| Look my first comment, i said that i accidently wrote 2047 (2047 = Breach point's ID) T_T |
| Moebius |
| Uh huh...so I'm not eligable? |
| Moebius |
| Darn...I spent all that time on fixing it too. :( |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Moebius doesn't matter why someone submitted it, you're not out yet. So keep working on the map, might pay off. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| oh fuck deadline hit already? TT |
| Moebius |
| Yeah, that's what the second post was about. :( |
| Testbug |
| i'm voting for Brench Point too! ñet's see what happens. will it really become a bwm.net MOTM? who joins to me? |
| Moebius |
| You mean MOTW? :D Thanks for the vote, though. Wish I'd had time to update it. But I'm gone for a few days as of Friday (tomorrow). |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Breach Point needs some editing. I really don't like Iron Flush from having played it, it's very awkward. Battle Marshes needs edits. Coastal Battery needs testing. Thunderbolt needs testing. Sound Barrier needs testing. I haven't seen or talked to NastyMarine in a while, so let's assume there will be no Avaton, ie you guys need to do your own testing. There isn't a single map here I'd like to see win motm =/ |
| ptar |
| What would you change at Battle Marshes Joel? Dunno what to do with it :/ And what do you think about Eres? modified by ptar |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| I don't know how can you vote for breach point, it is really T >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P with push tank and decoration is not really good modified by ProTosS4EveR |
| maximumdan |
| wow so many of these maps look awesome, elysum fields, coastal battery, and eres look so simple at first but are still original and well made. and sound barrier is just in a class of its own. nothing else like it out there. looks amazing. gj modified by maximumdan |
| flothefreak |
| yea, thunderbolt and sound barrier need testing and i know that. i only added them so they can still participate (deadline) if i/we can make enough testgames until the end of the month |
| Crackling |
| iron flush might need some changes ;D |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I don't like Iron Flush, from playing it. It just has a rediculous amount of concepts in it. There's just nothing elegant about it =/ It's awkward =/ |
| Testbug |
| i don't know what does Awkward means but it's ok you don't want "a map you dislike" to win. and when pimping a map you have to keep the map concept, no mater how the amount of cencepts it has is. i liked those concepts and i just fixed some bugs like terran building a machine shop in the backdoor ruins minonly; the mineral fields in the ramp are very easy to jump and probes can be pushed by a pylon, etc. i like the center, look how it got. looks beautiful in game and map editor. but the pic doesn't really helps... i really really like it, i get in love with Crackling's concept :$ Thunderbolt doesn't really needs more test. i think it's good enought, specially in a 2v2. let's make some test games flo? |
| flothefreak |
| i'm in for testgames, usually. but i sprained my wrist yesterday, so it may take up tp 3-5 days until i can play again. even typing is hard 8[ |
| Crackling |
| i just dont understand how u can vote for coastal battery oO sorry but this map seems so newbish to me, nothing worse against the maker but the map is just... wuargh :f |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| Write what you consider nooby in my map and when i wrote how can you vote for Breach Point, i wrote some big issues and you write only that my map is nooby so please write constructive comments. I try myself to make the most constructive votes as a can. |
| Testbug |
| what happened to coastal battery?? it's a lot diferent from the beta version :S the old version was a very nice one. this new version looks like the empty moon tear but it's not the worst map in the list, nothing gives you any right to do that crackling :S the only newbish thing in this new coastal battery is the 3 o'clock expo which minerals are totally bad placed, playing it is as boring as Moon Tear because of the design, but you will have to improvise a lot if using the long way. |
| Crackling |
| i dont wanted to hurt someone but it seems to be nothing really speacial i mean like 4ß0349686ß98ß689 another maps in the database :o yes the beta looked better to me too both gameplay and designwise :( |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Why would anyone vote for Iron Flush? It's just Neo Peaks of Baekdu raped by every form of bad pathing out there. It's just so stupid and awkward. The only thing people like about it I suspect is Testbug's decoration. I bet if you wiped the votes to start over and edited the map so that it had 0 decoration people wouldn't vote for it at all. Nothing against the map maker, but the map is just... wuargh. |
| Crackling |
| :> you are right nightmarjoo |
| Crackling |
| but... NOOOO IT HAS NORMAL RAMPS IN THE MIDDLE NOW, OOOOOOH LOOWWWWLLLZZZZ ITS A GREAT MAP xd |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| Pff, that is very stupid to make accounts and vote for Crystal Valley. VERY LAME T_T Is it possible to ban IP? modified by ProTosS4EveR |
| ptar |
| I'm with ProTosS4EveR, but i don't think that Lancet made this acc. :/ |
| Crackling |
| LOL :D:D funny guy who made this XD panschk can u move those 6 points from the 2. iron flush to the ones which was first? :D TSL voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice TSL voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice TSL voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice potential voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice potential voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice potential voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice Control voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice Control voted (4)Bridges of Scion as 2. choice Control voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice check IP or something? but lol they all (he?^^) voted iron flush at least as 3. :D would be ok for me to lose vs battle marshes or Elysium Fields but not vs Crystal Valley :D:D modified by Crackling modified by Crackling |
| ptar |
| I think TSL, potential and control are fake votes. herb, i dunno. Maybe, but i don't think so. And who the fuck is Dante? modified by ptar |
| Crackling |
| dunno who is dante but he voted quite random maps form different mappers... and iron flush as 1. :> xD nono thats not a fake acc of mine ;d *EDIT*: just searched in the database there was a bio-dante who uploaded a map some time ago, it might be the same... or not :d modified by Crackling |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Oh, thank god the vote was hijacked. Now we get to make an arbitrary admin decision for the winner :D^^ |
| Testbug |
| I think definitively he is not lancet. but TSL, potential and Control, you are right. don't know about "herb" and "dante50" but this 2 guys voted fomr some descent maps, maybe herb really likes Crystal Valley, but wth?? testbug voted for Brench point as 1. choice! he must be banned lol. ok but seriously, TSL, porential and Control? wth? |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| "Now we get to make an arbitrary admin decision for the winner" Kekekeke! i'm the winner kekekekkekeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee xD |
| Testbug |
| For2Motion voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice they are trying to get more votes than Iron Flush BUT THEY CANNOT!!!! xD |
| Testbug |
| oh and this 5 guys voted for the wrong iron flush! so it will be very easy to find the invalid votes, those ho voted for the 2nd iron flush. the original iron flush have 26 votes and the other 7, you can add'em if you want, it will be a total of 33... jk xD modified by Testbug |
| Testbug |
| "Control voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 point "For2Motion voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 point "herb voted (2)Iron Flush as 2. choice" = 3 point "potential voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 points "TSL voted (2)Iron Flush as 3. choice" = 1 point that's why the 2nd iron flush has 7 points xD LOL ok fixed modified by Testbug |
| ptar |
| Testbug: "herb voted (2)Iron Flush as 2. choice" = 1 point 2.Choice = 3 points I don't think he is fake voter, but the others. Btw... He voted it as first choice. >< modified by ptar |
| herb |
| I like map (2)Crystal Valley. My vote is no fake! modified by herb |
| ptar |
| They changed there votes for Iron Flush to Breach Point. |
| herb |
| Lol? herb voted (2)Eres as 2. choice ptar (2)Eres is your map? |
| ptar |
| I know. Thx :) But as i said i don't think you are a fake voter. I mean the people wich are voting for the same maps. |
| flothefreak |
| i feel like thunderbolt, sound barrier and iron flush as well should not become MOTM until they are heavily tested. i will look the few replays on iron flush the next days for a start. |
| Testbug |
| oh sorry herb, i like the map you did with.. err.. maybe Mapghost? the M# thing. ok but if YOU want a map to win (i'm not talking to herb) you don't have to invie your friends to register and vote for that map (again, i'm not talking to hebr) that's why only know ppl votes should count, as i did not vote in the fist map of the thing threads we had when i was a new member. flo: watch the last game arround 21:27>>21:31 at 6 o'clock xD modified by Testbug |
| Testbug |
| Cucdas voted (2)Crystal Valley as 1. choice Cucdas voted (2)Breach Point as 2. choice Cucdas voted (2)Sound Barrier as 3. choice they finally got more votes than iron flush |
| Crackling |
| crystall valley ftw :D |
| Testbug |
| oh, you remember what happened MOTM4??? let me refresh your memo: herb voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice herb voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 3. choice potential voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice potential voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 3. choice TSL voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice TSL voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 2. choice Control voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice Control voted (2)Iuppiter 1.1 as 2. choice Control voted (2)Regardant Hawkeye as 3. choice For2Motion voted (4)Endorphine as 1. choice For2Motion voted (2)Iuppiter 1.1 as 3. choice and yes, that thing got about 40 votes |
| For2Motion |
| Of sure one admin map win again. Wellcome to corrupt practices. Testbug you drink or blind? My vote is: For2Motion voted (2)Iron Flush as 1. choice modified by [ReD]NaDa modified by Bisu[Shield] modified by IpxZerg modified by [Oops]Reach modified by [NC]Yellow modified by Draco modified by For2Motion |
| flothefreak |
| "corrupt practices"? that choice of words is reminding me SO of some certain user. besides, i think only my two pimps could count here as "admin map" modified by flothefreak |
| ptar |
| Flo is right, his maps are the only half made admin maps. @For2Motion : We aren't that dumb you and TSL changed your votes. :/ I like it, that you voted for Eres, but i don't think these votes should count at all. Stop making these fake votes, it make no sense! |
| Crackling |
| crystall valley still 1. :d |
| ptar |
| Now Iron Flush got the lead. |
| Testbug |
| [[For2Motion read my post again, i'm talking about MOTM4 not MOTM7; and i'm both druk and blind]] Oh, Nasty Marine voted for Iron Flush :D that's how it got the lead ^^ i think this guys can change their vote the last day of the competition?? modified by Testbug |
| Crackling |
| great they changed votes half to eres half to iron flush-.- do they really think if they change their votes in last minute cristall valley gonna win`? T_T edit~ they would missunderstand that and use it as weapon ;s modified by flothefreak |
| Crackling |
| olololo u can edit my posts :( |
| Testbug |
| half and a half? only dante and 4-2motion voted for flush |
| Crackling |
| i feel like this MOTM will get a lot if changes in last days before voteend XD |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| This MOTM is so strange... -_- |
| Testbug |
| i get bored. what about MOTF?? :D (map of the fortnight) |
| Crackling |
| what is fortnight xD |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Flo what do you think about the maps here? |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I think that Eres, Thunderbolt, Sound Barrier, and Coastal Battery deserve attention for testing and possibly winning. Eres is pretty basic and really doesn't need much in the way of testing. The other maps are kinda silly =/ |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Battle Marshes is decent too. |
| flothefreak |
| battle marshes is cool and i have played it - but the natural setup could be a problem. elysium fields is interesting, but the natural setup is not really tested - FE seems quite hard in all MUs, esp. ZvT could be problematic with mm/tank push with highground advantage. i am not sure if the whole thing works out. coastal battery is awesome on the picture but has serious gameplay flaws. the map and all expos are SO open (natural as well) and the inbase expo+islands seem to make turteling somewhat necessary for terran - as they can hardly leave the base. iron flush. i havent seen all reps on it yet, but i think it is very interesting. i have concerns about tightness, but somehow it seems to play like baekdu. ZvT does not seem this hard as lurkers are incredibly strong on the ramps and highground an mutalisks can use their mobility against the ground forces. dunno about Pvt, though. nevertheless, it features loads of cool elements which makes the map a strategic miracle. the minonlynat+gasexpo backdoor is weird, i have no real arguments against or in favor of it - dunno, it's unusual. actually the whole map is unusual, but even if it is not balanced on high skill level - but among average decent player the better will win for sure because on that map use of the terrain is all and everything, which will give a clear lead to the more intelligent player. as i said, i have no clue if it is balanced to a good extent, but it's a piece of art concerning mapstructure and -design. thunderbolt and sound barrier - that is easy, no way. they cant be motm without testing. i added them before the deadline and thought i could make sufficient testgames on them until decision progress, but i didnt. partly due to the good weather, partly due to bw inactivity, partly due to playing awoken demons if starting broodwar. so no way for them, they're way too experimental in their concept (even if it is in both only a small idea - but crashing known balance theory totally) to get motm without testing. eres - a well executed basic n pretty map. i like the structure and expo setup. really nice. maybe not the best and freshest map out there, but clearly above average and a decent map. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Hmm ok. I don't like Iron Flush personally from having played it and looking at it. My comment above about the map was only made to mock/counter Crackling's comment about Coastal Battery, but it was still honest and truthful lol. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol I think it's really funny that the two maps I'm liking the most here are both ptar's^^ |
| Testbug |
| the 815 ramp on iron flush was modified, it's a normal ramp now -.- |
| ScoutWBF |
| Iron Flush is too complicated imo. All this mine this minerals to expand and kill that building to expand there. Also you are forced to move through the middle because every paths is blocked with something and if you avoid the blocked paths you will get back to the middle. Personally the map is too direct and too focused on the middle. That move up the ramp and down again is one of the thing I hate when playing maps. Oh yeah and don't make the gas expansions in the back of the main base. It just makes me play defensivly all the time. I hate that. Oh and the mapname is crap. Pimped maps sucks ass by the way. Make a new map and don't edit the maps of others. Those "Pimps" are the worst assholes on this whole website. Fuck you (especially Flo) modified by ScoutWBF |
| Crackling |
| ScoutWBF it seems that u need some more sex, u know i also get in trouble when my dick is unused some time, makes me angry etc :S there are some changes whcich i would like to make on iron flush but testbug isnt okey with it xD: 1. edit 12+6h thing removing those protosstemple and mineralblocks on the ramps, gameplay showed that using of those way isnt THAT strong as we thought about it and dont need to be so fucked up. 2. i wanted to move backdoorgas and 1 mineralfield (also from backdoor) to the main, should unforce t/p getting dumb backdoor with low minerals just cause there is a gas. i think rest of map is very fine, if u watch the replays, u can see how great those "2" backdoor (backdoorexpo and xelnaga) entrances can be used for pressure ;d most of the replays werent THAT great cause we tried to concentrate on the possibilitys the map gives to us and not on our micro/macro :D say plz if u would like those changes on Iron Flush, so maybe testbug will be ok with it :PPP PS: yes, maybe the name should also be changed :D |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Scout hit what I've been trying to say about Iron Flush. Scout, 'pimping' maps is not a bad idea. I think that the problem with pimping maps is that a lot of it is just decoration updates, or that the original concept is lost, in both cases making your own map is better. But a whole redo of a map, a 'pimp', is definitely a good thing imo. Don't be mean to flo, he's been nice lately! Also, flo's pimps of those two maps were imo decent. |
| Testbug |
| Crackling uploaded testbug's terran replsys ¬¬ |
| flothefreak |
| fuck you fucking scout ut is nbot like i take a map and onyl make it look gpopd i see maps where the concept is ot seen becazse tgey are badky exectued and i make the concept beinf recognized and accpeted sp FUCK OYU FUCKOU>>Y FUICK Y>OU biucth |
| Crackling |
| ^_^ modified by Crackling |
| ptar |
| What do you mean with suspecious action?! These are just normal sentences. Most of the people here voted for there own map, and look at the votes, Iron Flush is in the lead. Dunno what you want to said, or the guy "without nuts". I see here nothing spectacular. Btw... I wrote the sentence with Iron Flush before Sound Barrier was added to this competition. |
| Crackling |
| kk u r excused :S |
| Testbug |
| yeah, testbug's terran sux, you uploaded my terran reps, i hate you T_T modified by Testbug |
| Crackling |
| and the winner iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.............. |
| flothefreak |
| 1. iron flush 2. eres 3. coastal battery (crystal has fakevotes) |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Wonderful. A map tested and found to be too complicated and a mess of concepts and the epitome of bad pathing, a map the epitome of standard, and a map relatively untested and still undergoing edits to have reasonably balanced gameplay. I can't bring myself to type out this newspost. Nasty/flo, this is your day to shine =/ btw ptar I think Eres is a nice map, it just is very standard, but of course solid. The distances from main2main look long, hopefully that's been tested already. Coastal Battery is nice, but I would like to see it in its final form not in the inbetween stages. |
| flothefreak |
| why not giving 2nd place to a solid wellmade map? i dont see a problem in this. 3rd map coastal is untested, but 3rd map doesnt really say anything else than mentioning it as new fresh concept (triceratops). i dont think iron flush is a mess of concepts. the nat/main/backdoorlayout is fresh and interesting but not clearly imbalanced in any MU. the center is quite tight but reminding of baekdu so this should work: in PvT you still have the advantage to come from highground sides if T pushes through the center, and you can also just move around as there is NO place of striking strategical value in the pushing route, such as (2nd) expos. basically, terran doesnt grow stronger through that push and you can still backstab him to certain death with the temple backdoor. the only thing we dont know how to work is the weird minonly in that semi-backdoor. in ZvT however, this map will play a lot like baekdu, making lurks very strong everywhere on the map; also muta mobility counts a lot. i dont know about zerg's gas expos in this MU, they all seem fast accessable for terran. PvZ gets very interesting, i think it can be balanced perfectly here because both P and Z can play out their strength to a full extent. actually i dont know why you refuse it that much. pathing is not affected for the most important routes, and the blocked ones will be tactical-strike-used, not be some move-around-map paths. i only played it once, though - but it didnt feel cramped. microintensive map, maybe reducing mineralcounts in main would be a good option. it is just a great map, be it tested or not, you should acknowledge this - especially when you cant tell it wont work like on similar korean maps. |
| flothefreak |
| eeeh that went too long -.- |
| ptar |
| Should we make the most experimental and best looking maps, or playable standart ones?!(it's not against Iron Flush) If you ask guys on b.net or something else, they don't wanna play maps they have to learn before they play them. I think we should take the winners as they are. Most of the mappers here @ bwmn voted, and nobody is that dump to vote for a map he doesn't like. Look at the numbers of votes the maps got. 57 and 40. Ofc there are some fake votes, but these shouldn't count. It's no offense against any1, but only cuz 1 person(admin) says he don't like the maps, you have to choose other ones. Only wanted to make things clear. Eres: The distance from main2main isn't to long. I'm thinking of making the natural dropable, like flo said and reducing some of the highground in the middle. modified by ptar |
| Crackling |
| hm yes, iron flush is very experimental, but when peaks of baekdu (first baekdu daegan) was in the kor leagues, most people didnt like it... but with time they saw the potential of micro-intensive maps, its just a complety other feeling of starcraft than on luna, tau cross, longinus etc etc :P maybe its gonna evolve a lot, like baegdu daegan needed A LOT changes to become those perfect map, peaks of baekdu :P guess what map was choosen to the best progaming map in korea 2006 (there was a big vote between the progamers, managers and a poll on some important websites)... yes it was peaks, with a very high amount of votes :) |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| My final Coastal Battery will win a MOTM, trust me. x) |
| Testbug |
| i dislike experimental maps. i pimped tour flush because i liked the concept. lurkers and mutalisk were too powerfull. so i placed the gass in the backdoor (so if zerg wants to defend the choke, there is no fast gass; no fast gass = no fast powerfull lurkers/mutas) what's the experimental thing about it? you just to the the center (has shown to be good enought) don't really think it's like baekdu, but yes, i hate macro maps like rush hour :S @flo, reducing the mineral fields in mains??? no way to don't 6pool there then. i don't find any problem with Eres, i'm not voting for it because it was that standard and so, and think Elysium Fields and Battle Marshes are better. what the thing about the main2main distance? it was perfectly solid for me. just didi nopt vote for it because doesn't offers anything new. and for the good of the bwm.net comunity. you (admins) will have to place coastal batery's picture somewere in the main page (that thing was not tested but looks damn good) |
| Nightmarjoo |
| OMFG I FUCKING HATE SBC WORST INTERNET EVER (Just typed a large comment analyzing Iron Flush, and I didn't notice the internet SHUT FUCKING DOWN before I hit post comment, resulting in the entire thing being FUCKING LOST) |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Ok, I'm fucking retyping it, but it probably won't sound nice since I'm fucking pissed now -_- |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I have no problem with what you guys vote for, Iron Flush isn't terrible, it's not like a grig map or anything, so I don't care if it gets motm, but I don't like it, so I don't feel like posting it (I feel the map could be improved quite a bit). I have no issues with Eres, it imo as I said earlier is one of the better choices for this competition (not that that says much, no offense). It's solid and standard, I usually prefer solid and unique maps for motw/motm, but Eres isn't super boring so I'm fine with it. Testbug I would rather wait on Coastal Battery until he finishes it and it gets tested, it looks like a nice concept that after several new edits will be a pretty good map. It's not that amazing looking atm, and I'd rather post it when both its gameplay and aestetics are solid. Now for my Iron Flush analysis... |
| Crackling |
| Nightmarjoo :P thats the iron-flush-maaagiiicc which is angry on you because u dislike iron flush :PP |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Iron Flush's gameplay no longer is at all similar to that of Peaks of Baekdu. They shared at one point the narrow middle concept, but I believe that is now gone. Iron flush is relatively narrow and tight, the result of having so many chokes and ramps. There are many areas which can result in poor pathing. Pathing For zerg, the backdoor expo's pathing may be awkward, I can see it being messed up unless the rally is in the main, which would be inconvenient. The xel naga backdoor is an area for possible pathing issues until it's cleared. Once it is cleared, only zerg imo will retain its full benefit of increased mobility, as z is very mobile for one, and two, protoss and terran will have builings in the way since it's their main. The only open expo is the mineral only, whose entrances are all pathing nightmares, mineral walls, neutrals, oh my! The fact that every other expo is tight can result in pathing issues from lack of space in them, and can result in turtling. The concept of an expo's minerals being vulnerable to attack from behind was imo poorly executed. Basicly, it can result in poor pathing until a hole is created in the wall, and still can have pathing issues even then for obviously having stuff built near it since it's an expo and since it's fairly tight. The mains aren't all that big, personally I'm not t or p nor have I indepthly looked at it, so it might be ok, but probably is fairly tight later in the game, which can result in pathing issues (units colliding, buildings blocking, etc). Macrotastic/Turtleriffic Gameplay I don't think the map is truly a micro oriented map, imo it has a lot of things which encourage the opposite. For starters, there's a backdoor expo. Secondly, the gas is in the back but your main choke is guarded by a mineral only, making it imperative especially for zerg to take both relatively early on. The expos are almost all tight, resulting in turtling being relatively easy. On the other hand, many expos are very vulnerable to harass. However, this imo just encourages turtling more. Best way to prevent harass is play very defensively, ie turtle the fuck up. It seems to me that there are too many expos, or that the general expo layout of the map doesn't flatter its gameplay. What I mean is that the expos are clustered, making it easy to take one if you first take another, very macroish and turtley. Ugh Gameplay The middle, despite being awkward and tight from so many ramps, is still fairly flankable. Unfortunately, the same really can't be said about everywhere else in the map. But, aha! that nat is pretty open too! Well it is, but it's surprisingly linear even with having three external ground exits. So like, even if all of your backdoors are open (they won't be, btw), if something enters your general nat area, you're pretty much stuck and contained, a contain is pretty hard to throw off. The nat's layout and positioning is just really awkward and not fun for zerg, who is already 3hatching for his gas. If you remove every single path blocker in the map, you still have a fairly unflankable map. Personally I find the NW and SE corner to be too unreachable. There's a lot of gas in the map. There're two mineral onlys in the map. One is the nat, already imo poorly designed. The other is in the middle of paths, which would make it a convenient strategic position if there weren't so many gay blocked paths. Its only strategic position is guarding your backdoor expo, but the blocks already do a fairly good job of that, at the least delaying things for your timing to kick in =/ Since one expo guards another, some of the more vulnerable expos don't actually play their strategic purpose because you can guard them from another base by taking that one first. The backdoor alone makes the map macroish. But its necessary to have the gas in a backdoor, because otherwise zerg would rape with such linear main2main pathing. Well, instead of correcting this with a macroey backdoor, perhaps the main2main pathing could be redesigned? Baekdu did this simply by making the middle path tight for big units. I wouldn't reccomend recopying that necessarily, but I think the middle could be redesigned for a better effect. Once that was solved, you'd have a more mobile map already, and no backdoor to worry about, and more room for main space, allowing for movement to be better; that just fixed half if not more than half the issues I just mentioned. In Peaks of Baekdu, there is one single pathing issue. Just one, well in two places. That alone for me personally, and for many others as well, was a lot to cope with as players are used to having decent pathing in maps. Having so many more makes moving shit around complicated and frustrating. You certainly have to put more micro into the game, but not the kind of micro you necessarily want to encourage. Also Might just be me but the highground expo in the north, near the nat in the middle, looks larger than the coresponding southern one. Distances were longer in baekdu than here. The 815 ramps in the middle probably did help in the earlier version, but they were still annoying. I think I wrote more the first time I wrote this, now you can imagine my frustration with my internet being gay. Not to mention I probably spent an hour total looking at this map instead of studying my chinese for tomorow and getting sleep ._. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Hope that helps at all, too bad I waited until August to write that out >< |
| Testbug |
| i love you nightmarjoo :( i didn't want to change the 815 ramps, but every1 hated that, because their early dragoons couldn't reach each other :( now the center is fucking linear. |
| lancet |
| Greetings from Australia! I took advantage of my momentary access to the internet to cast some votes. Voted for Iron Flush, amazing map (besides mine, that is, but I don't vote for my maps). Also I don't have other aliases folks, my maps may be weird but I am a straight shooter. Will be back in earnest in a week or so. Lancet |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| MOTM 7 over? :o modified by ProTosS4EveR |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I'm not posting Iron Flush unless it gets some significant editing =/ |
| Crackling |
| Testbug is working on it |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| xD |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| CRACKLING MKAE TIHS FCKUING UDPATE!1!! YUO MAED TIHS MPA OTO!1!! |
| Crackling |
| testbug dont let me :( its his map now ;d and he will keep those 12h+6h temple+minerals on ramp shit -_- |
| Testbug |
| oh sorry, who sayd i was working on it? i have started clases (and i send crackling a pm telling him that i'm not working on it because i don't have any map for nighrmarjoo's random competition 2 or motm8) i'm keeping 12 and 6. |
| Lancet |
| Do not edit Iron Flush, this is a great map and deserves to be MOTM! Look at replay "13.rep" the last one posted so far (8-9-07). Great comeback by Terran against Toss. Somebody go and knock some sense into Nightmarjoo. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol. I watched the replay. Perhaps our definitions of "comeback" differ. It's my understanding that in order to "comeback" you have to be behind at some point, and then be ahead, wherein you have "comeback". Terran had more bases than protoss the whole game, he was always ahead and never behind, so he couldn't have comeback. I'm not sure why that game is a great example of good gameplay. It does demonstrate some of what I said earlier though. Please note: Terran turtled on his side of the map for 28 minutes. Protoss could never use the middle to attack, only always the sides. The sides however are easy to guard when you turtle and don't leave your base. The replay showed a long turtle game resulting in terran winning. The fact that the game was long was only because t never felt like leaving his base until protoss had like nothing. Had he actually used his money he would have probably ended the game a lot sooner. |
| Crackling |
| hm yea, i had like 6k mins and 3k gas oO but in normal games a terran just cant expo so much in tvp as i did :D he just never pressured me or went for those expo in pvt the p should be like +1 or +2 expo it was completly onesided -_- nightmarjoo lets go some 1v1 on iron flush (after testbug releases it with flo's changes) if i would have player vs a better player (nothing against testbug, but toss isnt his mainrace) the more mobile race (p) would use all those alternative ways to crush my expo and deal lots of pressure. |
| Lancet |
| I see what you mean that it was not a comeback, but Toss did use the middle for a flanking attack of the first terran army that ventured out at 14 min and it destroyed it. I guess what was exciting about the game was the way Terran was apparently flung "against the ropes" by Toss exploiting the side entrances that this map has. In fact I think that that is what makes this map good. Most people are accustomed to a "linear" style of play. They exit their base towards the center and place rally points further and further along with very few units remaining behind. Here you do that and you find an army gaining access to your main by a side entrance. In hindsight Toss did not take advantage of Terran's turtling to make more expos and did not scout the sides enough (he would have detected the Terran bases to the South East). |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol I can't guarantee my p is any better than testbug's. My p is my worst by far >< |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| Nightmarjoo is thinking what to write about Iron Flush... xD Just write: New version Peaks of Baekdu became MOTM. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol I'm not posting it as motm. Not unless it gets some good editing/testing done. |
| Crackling |
| hm testbug wanted to do it at weekend but he didnt >.< flo might u finish what u have posted? |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| Nightmarjoo > democraty :( |
| Lancet |
| I wish to put forward a motion to grant Nightmarjoo the official tittle of GRAND OMNIPOTENT DICTATOR (GOD for short) of this web-site. Who agrees with me? : ^ ) modified by Lancet |
| Testbug |
| 77 points to iron flush only nightmarjoo doesn't likes it (and i will edit it when i get some free time, i don't have anything to the motm8 so don't know if do a fast map or what) modified by Testbug |
| Crackling |
| HEIL NIGHTMARJOO |
| LGI |
| There is only one person who can save us from Nightmarjoo, and thats Panschk... I wonder how much time BWMN will need more to realize that Nightmarjoo should leave... |
| ProTosS4EveR |
| He leaves if he wants... |
| Lancet |
| Come on people, everyone switch their vote to Iron Flush and post a message here saying: "Hey Nightmarjoo, nyaah, nyaah, nyaah......"! : ^ ) |
| flothefreak |
| wtf is happening? all shut up, iron flush will be MOTM, period. there is still the possibility to give me some time (a few days) to follow cracklings request of opening it up, and we can post it afterwards as improved version. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I AM NOT THE ONLY ADMIN AT BWM. I am not posting it, that doesn't stop flothefreak or nastymarine from posting it. I don't care if 30 tards who are in love with its decoration voted for it, I'm not posting it. I fucking played the map, and I don't like it. I fucking analyzed every bit of the map, and since the author won't adress ANY of it, I'm not fucking posting it. Very few of you actually played it, and no one has said anything against what I said is bad about the map. wtf why are you calling me a dictator? I have no fucking say in anything, don't control anything, and don't even post at this site much anymore. You guys are just like the desert flower voters, except without names like "little boy meets rapist" (lol). Just like grief and spoilr. Oh noes Nightmarjoo won't post the shit map that got 3409534095 votes, bwm dictatorship! Admin corruption! Why should Iron Flush, in its present form, be motm? Tell me that, I am not unreachable, perhaps you can sway my opinion and I'll post it (good luck with that lol). Everyone here knows I don't care about the vote. Popular vote got George Bush in the white house, obviously the masses aren't that bright -_- Need a fucking Platonic Republic. |
| Testbug |
| i stoped working on iron flus because it already won. it is a victory and did not have anything to motm8. i make a fast map and wish to make it perfect this weak. now i have some hard work at school but will be free the next thursday+ i don't know who is Lancet, but have seen he is always around. that was only his opinion and he deserves respect modified by Testbug |
| LGI |
| @Testbug You don't know me, i don't know you. You haven't seen or play my maps. I haven't play your maps, but from a while i am looking them on the pictures. What can i say, you seems like a great map maker at least with your style and design, game play looks ok! BUT Mappers aren't here to win titles! They are here to improve their skills and maps! So if Iron Flush have more work, then DO IT! Even after you win MOTM 7, just make it perfect! I guess every mapper here makes his maps to be played, not to win titles, right? Wish you luck in future i am sure, that you are going to be one of the best non-korean mappers in the world! |
| Testbug |
| oh sorry LGI :( thank you very much alright ^^ |
| Lancet |
| Nightmarjoo, sorry but in some of your posts you made it sound like the decision of whether to give Flush MOTM depended on you. Iron Flush got us all excited for its innovative layout with the back door, the expossed gas nat next to the main, the complex center with its many ramps and so forth. After looking at many maps you start to say things like "yeah nice map but its been done before....yawnnnnnn". But along come maps like Iron Flush and they get you interested again, that's the idea. Now, of course it has shortcomings, all maps do but it makes up for them with its originality and strategic possibilities. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Ok, makes sense. Now tell me, why is Iron Flush more innavative than say, Sound Barrier, or Thunderbolt? |
| Crackling |
| Wait for it. Look at it. Like it. You will like it. Because we know where u live. Really. MORE SEXYNESS, IMPROVED PATHING, MORE DECO, BETTER TERRAIN USING... ===== 26.08. ====== *°*°*°Iron Flush 2.0*°*°* *some-Nuke-BOOOOOM-sound-effect* modified by Crackling |
| Testbug |
| ?? some effect ons the observer mode? |
| Lancet |
| Basicaly the complexity of Flush is greater. More things to take into account, more possibilities. Blasting the neutrals can totally change the balance of power by oppening up new avanues of attack and defense. The center is in appearance tight but still allows flanking. If we could get gosu gamers to play it I am certain we would be awed at the things they would come up with. Thunderbolt has the mineral only main edge, which is fine but appart from those temple-protected expos it is a linnear map. The main plus nats are a unit that can be reached only by one land access. Sound Barrier (my third choice) has the neutrals dividing the map into two halves meandering around the vulnerable central expos and the area for drops connected by a ramp to the nat. This I found interesting but again not as good as Iron Flush. Also, all in all it is still a linnear map. modified by Lancet |
| Crackling |
| testbug -.- the nuke effect was in the end of the post, when u read it! use your fantasy :D like in the cinema, a new film is coming... :P |
| Nightmarjoo |
| "Basicaly the complexity of Flush is greater" NOT A GOOD THING in this case..... |
| Crackling |
| testbug needs more time :o |
| Crackling |
| so... post silver flush?^^ |
| Testbug |
| NO |
| Lancet |
| OK, stop draggins your feet admins and post the winners, Iron Flush, Eres and Coastal Batery 1.3. |
| lnept |
| i also would never post iron flush. too many problems to be adressed, none of which I need to rename. Those replays made me cry inside. |
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