| Testbug | | |
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| Trang | | |
| This is my first map. I usually like to play 8 player with my friends, and I'm tired of playing Hunters all the time :) so I took a shot at making something of my own. I'm new to this, but I tried my best... |
| SiaBBo | | |
| Looks good. |
| boongee | | |
| This is actually a good map -- incredible for a first try. |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
This isn't bad. I was never much of a hunters player, so I don't know exactly how the gameplay will turn out on the map.
The only "issue" I can point out, is what's called the gas issue.
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=2
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=10
In short, gas mines best and with 3 workers, when the geyser is placed directly above or directly to the left of the starting location for the mains. If the gas is placed elsewhere, the geysers will mine noticably slower and at different rates with only 3 workers.
Also, you could make the mineral formations prettier if you made them different kinds of minerals (not just all of mineral block type 1 in one formation, using 1 2 and 3).
Hmm, another thing I might suggest is moving the main mineral formations a little bit away from the edge of the map. Some formations appear fine, while others look a bit too close imo. I'm not sure though if this will much effect a non-1v1 game, so in the end it might not matter.
There are other minor positional differences between the players, but I think they're negligible. Overall, the map looks like it should play solidly. You might want to spend a little more time on the visuals, the map's decoration, but that also isn't a big deal. |
| Trang | | |
Nightmarjoo, you're absolutely correct. Thanks for the constructive criticisms.
I won't be able to do it now, but I'll soon get to fixing the gas issue and the ugly minerals - I actually made a mental note to use the randomize minerals tool but you reminded me :)
I should probably move the minerals a bit away from the edge too. And I'll try my best to spend more time on deco with my limited experience.
Also, it's a real relief to hear that any positional imbalance isn't too significant because I struggled for quite a while to manage what I came up with. |
| Grief_Stricken | | |
perhaps not bad for a "first try",so far it is a "first try" - still far away from a competitive map.and this because of the far to short distances between the mains.personally i dislike alot the idea with the huge amount of resources in the main.surely,to balance a 8 player map is not an easy thing,particularly on 128*128 or smaller.it's very unlikely that u will be capable to fix the map - not with this concept.
i just looked in my folder where i keep my maps that i play for usual,and under all these maps i found only one 8 pl.map that fits in this category - (8)snake pit.sure it's not a great map too,but for alot of reasons > than this map |
| NastyMarine | | |
| you should widen the ramps in my opinion. Stop any mass Ts from turtling like a bitch |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
| That's not a bad idea. |
| Trang | | |
I moved gases and mins a bit. Also, added gaps in mins for scarabs :)
And taking into account what Grief_Sticken said, yes there are too much resources in the main area. So, I reduced it from 9/7/5 to 8/6/5... I'm considering whether 7/6/5 might be more appropriate?
Widened the ramps as NastyMarine suggested.
Put a little more deco in. I'm aware the cliff areas don't look pretty because there's too much, but I wanted all mains to have comparable amounts of cliff.
And finally a note: I'm aware this is far away from a competitive map... but I'm hoping it will be fun enough to play and be a change from playing always the same maps since there's a lack of smaller 8-player ones out there.
modified by Trang |
| Grief_Stricken | | |
like it is now i fear it would be very hard to stop a zerg rush if you start next to the other player(because of the short distance from main to main).perhaps he cannot destroy you entirely but he will cripple you so badly that you are not furthermore a threat for him.these large ramps doesn't help the map at all - not when u have such short main to main distances
reducing the amount of resouces was a good change - i guess taking the gas from the expo inside the main and give it to the minonly would help the map eminent more.because that way you will force players to expand outside the mains - at the moment no one will do it,be assured. |
| spinesheath | | |
I suppose we are talking 3n3/4n4 on this map, or MAYBE 2n2. But you, Grief, are commenting as if this was a 1n1 map.
The distances are fairly ok, maybe you could orange's and green's choke more to the right, and red's and white's more to the left.
You will have to move the minonlies to do that, but the rotational setup isn't required here anyways. You won't be able to take them unless someone created a mapsplit.
If you moved the gas to the minonly, you would only force a mass low tech gameplay, 2n2/3n3/4n4 already IS very mass focused. The second gas actually helps to go a different way. |
| Grief_Stricken | | |
| you! i comment this map (and each other map too) for evry possible number of players.a zerg rush will be even so hard to stop in a 1v1 like in a 4v4;currently on this map z>all.you cannot stop 2/3/4 zerg players only when the others play also zerg;not with these large ramps & not with these short main to main distances.btw,keeping the second gas in the main will make the game boring,the more players a party has - there will be no surprises in a game.only placing the gas outside to the minonly will grant the map more variety. |
| spinesheath | | |
The middle expansions are NOT useable unless there is a mapsplit. I.e. everyone will be playing off his main and maybe his minonly. This is by far more boring than an "early" second gas, since it will be all zeal/ling/rine.
In a 3n3 you don't die to fast pool unless maybe if you are facing a triple 7 or faster. Even on close positions. Of course you will eventually die if several zergs are allowed to mass up on you. Even on 12 @ hunts with a zerg to your left and right you should be able to hold the first attack off, though. If you can't - don't play 3n3. If you can, your allies will have a significant advantage and hopefully already be on the way to kill one of your enemies.
Hell, even in 2n2 on bloodbath zz isn't a 100% victory. |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
Zerg Rush!
modified by spinesheath |
| SiaBBo | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
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| SiaBBo | | |
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| Grief_Stricken | | |
nmjoo - i'm serious with this!if you don't procure yourself new glasses i won't respond to your messages anymore.where u see on this map a normal ramp??? futile to comment the rest of your comment...
spnheat - your allusion to (2)bb is pretty far-fetched.on that map some play worker rush and since z has the weakest workers it would be hard to say z >p/t.you cannot seriously suggest on this map a worker rush too - so far you are not outta your mind!
to this map again.i said when the second gas remains in the main the game will be boring the more players a party has.in a 3v3 or 4v4 you already know where your allies are,also your enemies;in a 4v4 for sure!now everyone has what he needs in his main - no reason to risk your butt outside.i call this boring!but if the minonly outside will have gas there will be good a reason to expand outside and not to bunker inside.besides,the map need back normal ramps.it doesn't means the map will become balanced - at least it would be less boring in the game. |
| spinesheath | | |
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| Grief_Stricken | | |
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| Nightmarjoo | | |
Oops, didn't see that the chokes aren't default sized, sorry.
A "zerg rush" is almost never crippling above D- skill level. If you're assuming a game full of noobs, why consider balance at all? And if you're not, then saying a "zerg rush" is crippling is simply false.
Are the main chokes not wider in hunters? Since "crippling zerg rushes" are apparently not a problem in hunters, I don't see why they'd be here. Just because lings get into your base doesn't mean you lose, or are even "crippled", come on lol.
In a 2v2 with halfway competent players, no player can safely FE, let alone in a 3v3 or 4v4.
While this is true, I think that moving the gas from the inside base to the outside base might not be a bad idea. |
| spinesheath | | |
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| Nightmarjoo | | |
| probes > goons, watch draco vs nony on wuthering heights in tsl. |
| Trang | | |
Wow. I'm gone for a bit, and there's a lot to read.
Sounds like I should move the ramps back a bit, to increase the distance between them just a little.
Also it was suggested a while back that I make the ramps wide to prevent T from turtling.
But now, I'm unsure... should I have the ramps at default width or wider?
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| spinesheath | | |
| Imo the ramps are fine. What you need to do is try to equalize the main to main distance (walking on the ground of course). |
| Grief_Stricken | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
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| Grief_Stricken | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
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| (: | | |
i think this map is very nice good job.
i dont wanna interroupt you mapmakers too much but you might be taking this too far. everyone plays the hunters and its almost imbalanced from every aspect possible. nobody thinks to play this in 1v1 or 2v2 so the balancing issues arent very important.
i believe when it comes to 3v3 maps they should be very simple. this map might be easy for terran to expand inside creating a boring game play.
i advice you for a better gameplay to make around the main alittle more cramped so protoss can make a 2gate wall inside main same with terran to make a normal block. and also make the ramps alittle wider. i dont know what you enjoy playing but im just saying my own oponion and what me and my friends enjoy playing. 3v3 doesnt need balance so creat what ppl enjoy playing. thats whats important! |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
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| Grief_Stricken | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
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| Grief_Stricken | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
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| djdolber | | |
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| spinesheath | | |
| Actually, just play the standard 3v3 opening; supply and rax close to CC in a well-defendable manner, and if you have to expect more than one 9pool, rax first, maybe even a protected bunker. |
| Johnny B.Goode | | |
You can hardly call this map balanced.Normal ramps can help to compensate the negative effect of the short distance.
Btw,Grief I read your last comment.Long,yet enjoyable.Gives me the feeling to know you better.
Let me see.I know I have in a rep folder some HoRRoR reps.
modified by Johnny B.Goode |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
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| fated | | |
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| Manhattan | | |
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modified by Manhattan |
| Kinosjourney | | |
Bumping this map for great justice, best 8 player map i've played in a long time.
I also made a Phantom map of this and added minerals and 1 geiser to the main so it's more of a replacement for BGH. Been playing this PH map alot on iccup and it's really, really fun.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C0OG6NXP
Heres the link if anyone want to throw a game together and try it, i might patch it in the future since there are tiny problems with walling in at some chokes due to unbuildable(but walkable) tiles. |
(8)Silver StarSilver Star.jpg)
