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MOTM 07.2008
| deadline to enter maps: 2007, 08, 30 (Year, month, day) |
| Whoooooooo it's summer now! Let's see some great maps made in your massive amounts of free time! Gogogo! |
Comments:
| ProTosS4EveR |
| mjaroo, only god knows that |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol Razor. |
| ptar |
| ownz all ! |
| Crackling |
| i wanna submit spinesheath spinel valley :O |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| As good executed as your english right? You have the right to subtmit it, no one has the right to not be mocked, especially you. If you want more respect from me, start by actually testing some of the things I mention could be wrong about your map instead of telling me you think I'm wrong, or at the VERY least, explain why you think I'm wrong, but don't expect me to not reply. |
| testbug |
| come on morrow. it's a normal map, really common, and any1 can make a 3 player map like that xD you just wasted a lot of space and made a nice triangle to make 3 similar things. (making a 3 player map is about to divide 16 zones to 3 players, wich means 5 zones for each player and maybe wasting 1/16 of the map with tar, space or water, but maybe making 2 areas wasting 3.3/16 and one area wasting 3.4/16) i'll make a "how to make a 3 player map" Article ONLY FOR YOU! center is very open and buildable, all the expos are very opened but really close from eachother. (look at python, opened expos but very far from each other) being main to main distance too large (well, teal-blue is not that large, being red-to-blue the larger) zerg will have to take the corner multies (wich don't have a choke, are in the middle of nowhere and can't deffend vs terran) there should be an expo with a ramp so lurkers can do something vs terran and protoss can turtle vs zerg. look at your mains, what have you done at blue minonly cliff, you should make normal mains, and forget everything you learned in "Blade Storm" :S you didn't use 3/8 of the map and made a small triangle where you couldn't fit 3 players so you also needed to add that thing between red main and red minonly? you didn't use 3/8 of the map and made a small triangle where you could't make same distances far all the players? so tar between teal minonly and the southern multy is bigger than nightmarjoo's mother (she is sooo biggg) and you think that corners near the neutral multies are not usless?? |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Well for one, I already said all of those things in the thread. Regardless of whether or not you're a bad mapper, 3 player maps are definitely hard to make. Maybe not anyone can make a map like (3)Razor on their first try, but when judging a map you consider the map conceptually and how it'll play, not how much work or time it took. The map itself is unoriginal, and has several aspects I (and Testbug, so you can't it's just me picking on you -_-) think can hurt gameplay. I'm not removing the map and have no intention of doing so. It'll remain here for anyone to vote for. I have no problem with it being submitted in the competition, and never suggested I did, so I don't see what you're crying about. I'm just telling you I think the map is bad. Sure it's not the worst map, it's certainly executed better than complete trash maps, and is so standard that it should mostly play fine, but gameplay problems + boring concept + imperfect execution certainly don't add up to = good map. Yes, I'm making the map sound worse than it actually is, but that's not to say what I'm saying is false. In general, wasted space is a sign of poor executed and/or poor planning. modified by Nightmarjoo |
| Testbug |
| MorroW i haven't say anything new, Nightmarjoo already pointed that out :S i'm just saying "you forgot this and that" <<<(what nightmarjoo already writed in the map thred, and you ignored him) |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Ok then play on python and don't make new maps. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Morrow you should work on different kinds of maps. It seems like your maps are all fundamentally the same. A map doesn't have to be complicated to be non-standard, and a "complicated" map can still be fun, and Sound Barrier is hardly complicated lol. |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| DMZ, Arkanoid, Demon's forest, hwarangdo, baekmoji something, katrina, monty hall, colosseum, troy, hitchhiker, desperado I'd say are all "non-standard" because of their gameplay. Colosseum, Katrina, and Troy are all border-line standard. Standard maps are like: Othello, Python, Longinus, Tau Cross, Andromeda, BlueStorm, LostTemple, Forte, Blitzx, rov, pa, r-point, and many others. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Hwarangdo is also border-line. |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Do you not follow progaming at all? How can you not know half those maps -_- Arkanoid didn't suck and I don't know its balance. It was a fun map though, offered many possibilities. Desperado is not an island map wtf. Katrina isn't boring, it offers many harass places, encourages dropping, and gives you a wide variety of places to expand to, really forcing you to think strategically instead of forcing you to expo somewhere. Mapping is now about looks? Python is a good and balanced map, and it's simple, that's why it's played so much. Maps can be both balanced and fun without being super simple. Also, luna is more basic than python. Morrow, no one plays your maps anyway, what do you care? There's also no incentive to play a map exactly like all other maps lol. |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| DMZ and Demon's Forest are the only maps ever removed mid-season, that's how bad they were hah. Both are on this site. DMZ was a 2v2 map with dwebs EVERYWHERE except the mains, with two entrances, and I think one was mineral blocked. Every single game ended in worker rushes, in the proleague lol. Demon's Forest featured a huge thing of tree doodads all directly adjacent. No sprites appeared, so all you could see was the tree stumps. You could barely move through the trees, and your vision was severely limited. The map was a neat idea, but it was too buggy. Archons couldn't morph inside, and other things were really buggy about the map. baekmagoji or something like that is the 2 player map shaped like a horse. It has a really weird setup, you'll have to look it up on our site, too hard to describe without looking at it. Hitchhiker was good and fun map. Katrina isn't lame, and it's only awkward because it's different. I don't think it's too awkward, but it has a learning curve, just like bluestorm or peaks. Luna was pretty well balanced I thought oO You can follow progaming without watching a single game oO. My point was that you're talking like you're revolutionizing starcraft with your super basic maps. Even if a handful of people play them, it makes no difference, they might as well play any other map if you're going to make them that standard. |
| Testbug |
| that dessert map with bridges in the corners is... Estrella!! :D WOO!! Arkanoid was supose to be T>P (tank frop at the compound was terran auto-win) but since you have 3 geysers, carrier rush owns! Arkanoid and HH were good maps. maybe MorroW personally dislikes HH, i don't know why he thinks HH is bad. but come one! vote for (2)µ!! and i so sad morrow doesn't know all those maps :( |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I think if HitchHiker is boring, it's because one or both players are playing the map wrong. The map nearly conceptually forces interesting games lol. Arkanoid was trickier. I think Arkanoid would've been recieved a lot better if players were already comfortable on island maps. Since they're not, it wasn't. |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Hihi~ Twilight Andromeda! |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| OMG YOU CAN BUILD CANNONS? NO WAY, THAT COMPLETELY CHANGES GAMEPLAY AND THE ENTIRE MAP HOLY SHIT |
| MorroW |
modified by MorroW |
| Nightmarjoo |
| What the fuck are you talking about? I fail to see how slight variations completely change gameplay. You can make cannons in this map everywhere you need to make them, so I don't see what you're talking about. You're really exagerating slight differences and acting like they completely change gameplay, I don't see a single thing which completely changes gameplay in any mu. You can approach it exactly the same, with slight differences in positioning. The biggest difference is that you cannot cannon your nat directly behind it, but that only partains to muta or maybe lurker drop. Again, this isn't a big issue. It's one different feature of the map, and yes you'll have to address it, but it's not going to massively change the gameplay. If anything, that just further encourages p to go 2stargate reaver/sair, the way they do on Andromeda. PROTOSS FE WITH CANNONS? NO WAY HEY MORROW, YOU SHOULD GO BY THE NAME "CAPTAIN OBVIOUS", IT'S FITTING! OMG NIGHTMARJOO TALKING IN CAPS, HE SO BM T_T OMG SARCASM, SOMEONE BAN NIGHTMARJOO PLZ :( |
| MorroW |
| ok thats it im sick of this. nobody helps around each other at this site. everyone are just pointing out their flaws in a bm way. and when i comment i map i get nothing but bm. this fucking sucks. it was a long time ago i could look at this site and read comments that really cheered me up. you are not a great mapmaker, you cant even fix mineral formations at faoi. you can wall at some postiions and some u cant. there are random flaws so u just cant make turrets behind the nats. there are still positionional imbalances and the rotical symmetry is really sloppy. this is what iccup got from this site. a fucking crap map and thats the best we can do?? i bet u even only subitted and showed maps from the "greatest" mapmakers. nightmarjoo its unable to build at the high dirt behind so there is no place for cannons. when my friend looked at my map he was very impressed at it he said "oh this is a total new concept, gj". maybe you too fucking retarded and ignorant to see anything. and just to explain how fucking unimportant i am to this site. ive told like 100 times the same fucking thing at voices, what u should edit and 12 and 6 but nobody fucking listens. testbug please post the same so ppl can read it. this map got also these fucking noob stuff that u just ignore. like the walls if it need 2 supply or 1 supply + rax to wall, the distances when building cc inside base and flying it to the nat. and u told ppl around not to upload new maps just cuse new updates. still i see faoi34 and voices219 this is fucking making me sick. also all these fucking noob mapmakers that cant see balance in this game and doesnt look at shit like this of positional imbalance. ppl that sucks at mineral formation and bairly cba to fix them. ppl that dont know how to make obs ver work. ppl that putting neutral buildings uploading at site and when actual playing it they just dont appear. ppl that all they do is looking for new concepts that must be TOTALLY NEW to actually be new for them. remove 2 mineral chunks at luna and u got a new concept if u ask me. but it must be balanced. but the way many ppl do here is adding random neutral buildings making middle high and making 100 ramps everywhere and expects it to be so well thought. its fucking hilarious how nightmarjoo can write and crap he wants like the worst admin ever and so fast som1 else say against him he just flame on however he likes. this totally sucks. go censur now and ull just point out even more of what im getting at... |
| NastyMarine |
| I have to agree with morrow |
| NastyMarine |
| why censor all his comments? thats pretty childish and nub. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| If you have problems with Faoi, post them in the map's thread. What's wrong with the mineral formations anyway? It's hard to get horizontal formations to mine perfectly, and the difference is pretty close in the current version. You can too make turrets behind minerals, I don't know what you're talking about. You have to wall with 2 depots 1rax at every position, I don't know what you're talking about. Every issue you've mentioned was in a much earlier beta version of the map, every issue there has been corrected in the current version, and the current version is in iccup. It's not my fault they made Faoi 1 motw this week when they already put "faoi 2" in iccup. "ok thats it im sick of this. nobody helps around each other at this site. everyone are just pointing out their flaws in a bm way. and when i comment i map i get nothing but bm. this fucking sucks" If you're going to be antagonistic, of course people are going to respond antagonistically. If you specifically are talking about me, I always try to comment every map someone makes. Everytime anyone makes a map, I comment on it, mentioning the things I think are bad, could be improved, things which could hurt balance or gameplay, etc. I just literally say absolutely everything that comes to my mind when I look at the map. On your latest map one thing I mentioned was what I saw to be an incredible similarity to Andromeda. You of course, respond by telling me I'm wrong about everything, how I'm an idiot, and how the map is nothing like Andromeda. So, I respond by clarifying specifically what I think makes the map similar, and all you do is flame me. All I fucking did was voice my opinion on the map, and point out what I see in the fucking picture. I opened the map in scmdraft and placed some buildings before I made my comments, to back up what I was saying. I don't see why you make such a big deal out of me telling you what I think about your map. I don't understand though, why you expect to flame me and not get flamed back lol. And when I said your map is like Andromeda and explained the similarities, all you can say is "no you're wrong, you're stupid, it's completely different from andromeda". Wow, I'm convinced! It's not a big deal to me whether or not you think the map looks like Andromeda, but it looks that way to me. But so what, who cares? That doesn't make the map bad. I never said the map is bad. You completely changed the entire thread's focus to whether or not the map looked like Andromeda, under the assumption I guess that the map looking like Andromeda is bad. The only thing imo bad about the map is the main base size, but you're sure the mains are fine, so whatever. I haven't played the map, I never said I did. You say no one ever helps anyone, but try not to make everything about you. You don't like me, I don't like you, and because of that the whole site is bad? You're the one obsessed with "bm", while you yourself are bm. I can't believe you take everything so seriously. I make fun of you and you freak out, giving me more to make fun of you about. It doesn't help that you act childish when I act childish lol. "you are not a great mapmaker" I have never claimed to be, but thanks for the flame. I guess I should do what you do and go "OMG BM" right? "i bet u even only subitted and showed maps from the "greatest" mapmakers" I literally made a thread, and said post maps here you want me to show yello-ant. I showed him every map in that thread. "nightmarjoo its unable to build at the high dirt behind so there is no place for cannons" I'm aware of that. You can still place cannons to the side of the minerals on the lowground, and can make goons sooner than usual, or make 2stargates if countering muta is your concern. This is a slight change in gameplay for one particular scenario, that doesn't make a huge difference for the entire map's gameplay for all mus in all scenarios. "when my friend looked at my map he was very impressed at it he said "oh this is a total new concept, gj". maybe you too fucking retarded and ignorant to see anything" I don't care what your friend thinks of the map. It's an ok map, but imo it's nothing special. I don't see anything special about it. The unbuildable cliff thing is different for sure, but I don't think it makes a big difference in gameplay at all, because the whole main/nat/min only area is so compact, ie easy to defend, and makes the mains small. The free in-main mineral only doesn't really help the gameplay either. Oh and, way to whine about bm while calling me fucking retarded, and I care so much I'm going to cry just like you do T_T "and just to explain how fucking unimportant i am to this site. ive told like 100 times the same fucking thing at voices, what u should edit and 12 and 6 but nobody fucking listens" Not my fault. Why is everything about you? "and u told ppl around not to upload new maps just cuse new updates. still i see faoi34 and voices219 this is fucking making me sick" I never said don't rename maps for different versions. There's a difference from posting a new map "Faoi 2" with "Faoi 1" still there, and editing "Faoi 1" to be "Faoi 2". I do and have always done the latter. I have never told anyone off for doing the latter. "also all these fucking noob mapmakers that cant see balance in this game and doesnt look at shit like this of positional imbalance. ppl that sucks at mineral formation and bairly cba to fix them. ppl that dont know how to make obs ver work. ppl that putting neutral buildings uploading at site and when actual playing it they just dont appear. ppl that all they do is looking for new concepts that must be TOTALLY NEW to actually be new for them. remove 2 mineral chunks at luna and u got a new concept if u ask me. but it must be balanced. but the way many ppl do here is adding random neutral buildings making middle high and making 100 ramps everywhere and expects it to be so well thought" Every mapper starts out bad, except for Testbug and Starparty. I've always seen it as the responsibility of the better/older mappers to help the newer mappers. The newer mappers HAVE been getting better, regardless of whether or not you can see it. A lazy mapper will probably always stay bad, but many of the weaker mappers are quite hard working, and just need practice/guidance. It's really nice of you to flame the weaker mappers, as if you were always the mapper you are now. Also, as if you're even a good mapper lol. Everyone gets to your level at some point, where they make fairly solid, standard maps. Nothing to brag about though. I myself am basically at that level. "its fucking hilarious how nightmarjoo can write and crap he wants like the worst admin ever and so fast som1 else say against him he just flame on however he likes. this totally sucks" Aww boo-hoo, Nightmarjoo writes his opinion! And it makes him a horrible admin! I fail to see how I'm a bad admin just because you don't like me though. You think everything is a flame. If someone is having an argument with me, of course I'm going to respond lol. It really sucks how I am active on the site, and make lots of comments right? It'd be better if I was inactive right? This totally sucks, I can't believe Nightmarjoo is on the site! I guess it's time to teach you something Morrow, about life. I know this'll be hard for you to handle and understand, but bare with me. You won't always agree with everyone in life, you won't always like everyone in life, and not everyone will like or agree with you! "go censur now and ull just point out even more of what im getting at..." I don't censor posts I don't agree with, I reply to them. I don't know why you'd expect me to censor your post anyway. I actually don't know why you dislike me so much Morrow. When commenting other people's maps, you and I usually mostly or even completely agree. It's only on your own maps do we disagree, and I think it's just you being blind to and biased about your own map. "I have to agree with morrow" You agree with everything he said? So you hate all bad mappers, think I'm retarded, think the site sucks, etc? Oh right, you're mad at me because your map isn't going to win motm, and you're sure it's my fault T_T You can go back to being inactive now. "why censor all his comments? thats pretty childish and nub" I didn't censor a single comment, I dunno what you're talking about. modified by Nightmarjoo |
| Crackling |
| :D |
| NastyMarine |
| I agreed with this: "ok thats it im sick of this. nobody helps around each other at this site. everyone are just pointing out their flaws in a bm way. and when i comment i map i get nothing but bm. this fucking sucks" I didnt read the whole conversation, the comments were censored before hand. Ya this site hasnt changed so the quality still sucks :o Maps dont suck, members are fine - Quality of positive reinforcement here? I dont like it personally but thats me. And ya I do think your retarded, but you knew that. |
| NastyMarine |
| And by quality of positive reinforcement, meaning, coming across conversations like this. and completely getting off track of what we're trying to accomplish. Still no organization by any means. ya heard? |
| NastyMarine |
| And ya I'm mad that people like to prolong the inevitable for no reason - MOTM winners. How many times has someone prolonged posting the winners for map updates that did basically nothing for the map? When someone like in my case has changed their map mulitple times for comments from many different users to change a completely experimental map into a standard/playable map and still it has not seen enough changes to win? I took in everyones comments without breaking my mold of spines concept and even when it receives all the votes it needed, some fagot goes and changes his vote for what? |
| NastyMarine |
| This is the first time in probably 2 years where a competition like motm/w had less that 10 maps submitted. I like it this way. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| "I didnt read the whole conversation, the comments were censored before hand" Well, you usually try and read something before you agree with it. As for comments "censored" Morrow blanked his own posts, I didn't censor anything. Hence why it says "edited by MorroW" and not "Edited by Nightmarjoo" "some fagot goes and changes his vote for what?" For one, I hadn't yet voted. When I saw that you had done what you usually do, completely stop testing or editing the map, ie leaving it as a beta basically, I knew I couldn't vote for your map. Voices, while it isn't perfect, is still being worked on, so it has the potential to be better than Spinel in many ways. You should analyze yourself Nasty, do you make maps for fun, or to win a random motm? Calling people faggots just because you're not going to win is not very mature. "And ya I'm mad that people like to prolong the inevitable for no reason - MOTM winners. How many times has someone prolonged posting the winners for map updates that did basically nothing for the map?" I have almost always ended up delaying the motm competition. Sometimes to wait for people who voted, or like in this competition, the winning map needed testing. What's the point of picking a map and saying "This is THE map of the month, if you aren't active at the site, you should check out THIS map, and also the 2nd and 3rd place maps", if it has barely been tested? Often also, the author of the map will tell me he wants to edit the map, hold on posting motm, and I agree, and then he takes a month to do the edit. Other months, there's basically a tie, and we have to make a thread asking bwm which map they prefer to be "1st place". The 2nd place and 3rd place spots grab you a nice detailed motm news post too, but they don't appear in that list on the right side of the site. I really don't respect the fact that you're more or less inactive for a while (even if you're looking at the site if you're not commenting more than your usual "Great map, I love it!", and not making any maps, you're inactive in my eyes), then suddenly appear, make two maps, and then whine and complain like an old lady about how everything at the site sucks, and then cry when the first map you've made in like half a year doesn't win a competition because people prefered the map testbug remade over your untested "final" map. If you want the site to be better, you need to actually put some effort and work into it and try and make a better atmosphere or whatever. Showing up, saying everything sucks, does nothing but further the problem, congrats. |
| Testbug |
| WHERE IS MORROW??? won't he come back? smells like fear :P |
| ptar |
| smells like "pissed off" |
| Nightmarjoo |
| smells like teen spirit |
| ptar |
| kinda same xD |
| Testbug |
| no ptar, he just ruined the whole joke |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol :( |
| Grief_Stricken |
| so,you call it a joke when someone leave the site because someone else mob him out?!? i guess this is one of nmjoo best qualities.this was the third one since i'm here that resigns because of you - well done again! and every time this innocent-lamb attitude.cut it out,for sake! |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Only 3? And seriously, it's not my fault if they're too childish to just ignore me. You don't like me, you disagree with me most of the time, and I haven't seen you leave the site, do you just have balls of steel? Or are they just childish? (Or both!) |
| Testbug |
| lol you can't make grief leave the site |
| Grief_Stricken |
| you can't accuse him that he didn't try it ^__^ and nmjoo,it is not that i dislike you.i dislike the way you deal with things on the site.you never give me a chance to change my opinion about ya - since nearly 3 years.it's more childish to harass people around than to expect they should ignore you when you do it.and all these interferences in every possible contests!only because you pushing maps in motm or whatever doesn't make these maps in any way better or more interessting like they really are.don't u realize it? why u have to comment so negatively some peoples maps,like morrow's? you just make them feel bad.man,if i use to be ruthless in my comments with all the maps posted here...but wtf should i do this? we should encourage people in their struggles and not told them how weak they are.sure,when someone pretends he has a great piece,where no good map is we have to explain them why it is so.with understandable,traceable argues.and not with offending comments. you show me for a very short spell a different aspect of yours,with these poems.try to walk more on this path... |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Yeah I think I've been too harsh at times too with some of my comments, but it doesn't help that people like Morrow retaliate just as harshly, all that does is keep the mood one of flaming one-another, it doesn't allow either individual to calm down and comment normally. I think I was too negative at times with commenting Morrow's maps at times, but he would always comment back with something so stupid and childish that it would poise me to comment back increasingly negatively. ie, Morrow being childish would make me childish, which would repeat a stupid cycle. Pushing maps in motm is important in my eyes though, often the competition thread is bare until I start commenting each map or something and saying which ones I like and dislike, and why, and encouraging others to voice their opinions too. It feels too much like a silent auction sometimes without such discussion. And, with discussion being opened up, it does lead to the possibilities of breakthroughs being made about the maps, which does help the quality of the involved maps, as well as keep the quality of motm itself, in my eyes. I liked your post, Grief. |
| (: |
| can someone explain to me what all this is? what is MOTM ? |
| testbug |
| MOTM means "Map of the Month" you have to pick one radiobutton for 3 maps, from left to right, the 1st radiobuton will give 5 points to that map, the middle radiobuton will give 3 points and the radiobutton at right will give 1 point to it. so download the map you like, test it with your friends and comment it, then give some points to the maps you find were the best. when everybody has voted, the maps with the most votes will appear in the main page as a new |
| (: |
| (2)Spinel Valley III as 1. choice (2)Grief Stricken 1.2 as 2. choice (2)Loptimist v1.1 as 3. choice |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Jesus christ, six votes? Disgusting. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| yay 10 votes :D |
| Nightmarjoo |
| When do you want me to end this competition? Bare in mind that waiting can result in more people voting and others changing their votes, so a different result is possible by waiting for more people. |
| Testbug |
| chain? wtf it has no start locations and it's obviously not finishd. it has not doodads. can i remove it? can i? can it? :D |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Why bother? It has only a few points anyway. |
| Testbug |
| because it's just unfinished. and i have never remove a map :D |
| ptar |
| remove both my maps. I haven't added them to this competition -.- |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Testbug did. Ptar are you sure you want me to remove both maps? I can do it, but Flavors is in 3rd place and leading over the next map by 9 points :O |
| Crackling |
| by one point :( |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Er 6 points. Crackling your vote doesn't count of course for your own map. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| For those of you who are undecided or unsure of which map to vote for, Korhal Pride 1.3 has basically had no problems or complaints at all in the bwm testing tournies. Spinel Valley III has had a few, but nothing major. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I'm gonna post this monday, after all the tournaments are done on these maps, so if you're going to change your vote, do so soon. |
| NastyMarine |
| Lucky I didnt vote for my own map for number 1 ^^ modified by NastyMarine |
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