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MOTM 4.07
| deadline to enter maps: 2006, 05, 04 (Year, month, day) |
| Ooooook, let's try our first Map of the Month Competition! Don't knock it 'till you try it right? See http://www.panschk.de/mappage/forum/showthread.php?subforum=main&threadid=646&page=2 for the discussion on MOTW/MOTF/MOTM. Ok, so I think the way we're doing this is as follows: Voting will be the same, use the poll at the top after the week period for submitting maps is done. Feel free to post three maps you'd vote for in a comment, with 1. for the map you voted for, 2. and 3. for the runner up maps. These votes will not be as crucial to the decision process, but they will allow us to figure out possibly 2nd or 3rd place contestants in case that one map recieves all or nearly all the votes. We want to obtain three maps for this so we can show the starcraft community more than just one map per month. We will use the multiple chosen maps for Nasty's Avaton Tournaments and whatnot. Testing will also help show wether the vote is right on with the best map, or if it is mistaken and the most voted map has significant imbalances. If you have something to offer about how this MOTM should run, please comment/discuss in this competition thread. |
Comments:
| tktkvroom |
| I dont get it, & who uploaded Lysis? nobody is showing love towards it comment wize |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I submitted it, it seems like a nice strong map made recently. I don't see any flaws in it, it is imo a good stong map to start with for motm. idk if it will win, but it keeps the quality of the maps at a certain level I think. |
| tktkvroom |
| horry sheit was that joel? |
| Nightmarjoo |
| no? I commented that I liked it in the map's thread... |
| tktkvroom |
| lmao kk thats cool |
| Lancet |
| Well, with regards to the replays on Lysis, Terran got creamed. Don't you think some modifications must be made. That somewhat narrow exit from the main feeds into a section with lots of wide ramps. Toss's army can contain Terran effectively. |
| tktkvroom |
| most of the T advantages are they can hold well in there main & tank cliff corner expos & behind nat & the mineral onlies |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Map doesn't looks t>p or p>t to me, but I can't play it. Remember this longer deadline is supposed to encourage both submitting and testing. |
| NastyMarine |
| start submitting more. remember the top maps will be used in the avaton tournaments by mid month hurry hurry hurry |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Hey Nasty is my Regardant Hawkeye ever gonna appear on gg.net?^^ Please don't wait for MOTW to finish, because it won't! |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol who added Marja? Should we add a rule, good maps only?^^ |
| tktkvroom |
| lmao not me but w/e Lysis all teh way |
| RaDiX |
| I added harakiri, cuz I think it's now hot ;D.. AND I WANT MY 1ST MOTW/MOTM!! ^^ |
| tktkvroom |
| joel y would you want 2 of your own maps? Ughh wouldn't you have all of the votes to either of your maps going to 1? |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol well I think Iuppiter's gameplay is more solid, although flo may be right about the turtling with 3base, but ima work on that... Angband 3600 ft. might be a nicer map, but it looks to have long gameplay, I can't see any games ending shortly lol, and I don't want to kill early game play in a motm... of course I wouldn't argue against the map being picked :D |
| DG)SpoilR |
| I add Galaxy.This map is too good to be hidden for the SC community."Political intrigues" inside of this site have impeded that this map become a fair moty chance.I hope those ploys are belongs to the past,once for all.Too many freaky maps are rewarded - and in the end no one plays them.So let us give,the once so proud SC community,a map on that everyone can show what he can;duty-free from netrals,webs and all the other crap.Just a true SC map |
| RaDiX |
| delete electric dessert from the contest plz |
| NastyMarine |
| LOL @ SpoilR! |
| DG)SpoilR |
| Tell us another!@NM |
| tktkvroom |
| Voting starts today gogo gl hf gg |
| DG)SpoilR |
| Whitout trying to derogate the other maps,but I think someone must be really daft if he cannot see wich one is the hammer in this list.Galaxy Prime2.0 stands in the tradition of maps like Sattarchasm,Memory Cell and Regnum Noctis.Exemplary space partition,ramarkable resource placement and outstanding and distinctive terrain deco.The concept doesnt require auxiliary utilities like neutral buildings or webs to ensure a great gameplay.Also the map can renounce whitout any remorse on inverted ramps,like the other that I mention before.Cause the horizontal equity like in Regnum or Fortitude is more than enough to ensure a good balance. |
| NastyMarine |
| Galaxy Prime does not compare to Sattar, and MC lol if they did then GP would of already been MOTW weeks ago. |
| RaDiX |
| I dunno why I don't like jericho.. It looks nice and might play good.. It just doesn't turn me on that way, u know :s |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I don't think Jericho is finished. Galaxy Prime is a silly choice, it's so standard. MOTM is like MOTW, it's looking for exceptional maps, not as standard as possible maps. idk about FeedSomebodySSoul. It easily wins the great name award... it's unique and nice, idk about balance. I don't see anything wrong with it offhand, but it's so weird heh. Lysis is ok. I like my maps ~~ I think SpaceShip is shitty 1v1 map, good 2v2 map though. |
| DG)SpoilR |
| A silly choice if your name is Nightmarjoo.The whole quality of a map is important and not if a map is more or less standard.Nastys AquaRidge was also standard,so what?I'm grateful to see from time to time a serious map,and fewer freaky maps with amounts of neutrals and webs,baby stuff -that's the last straw! Your seems to be a huge fan of experimental stuff,that was always your "argument" against this map -too standard-,la-di-da. |
| testbug |
| FeedSomebodySSoul looks hot! oh wait... it's only the picture colors are diferent. sorry but i love Lysis |
| ScoutWBF |
| this website has changed. When BWMN started, we searched for balanced maps, now we pick experimental and probably imbalanced maps for MotM. BWMN just is not the same... |
| Nightmarjoo |
| The goal of bwm is to have both a solid balanced map, as well as adding new features to it. ie, we want balanced maps, but not the same thing over and over -_- Galaxy Prime offers nothing new at all. Balanced and new is the key. Galaxy Prime might not even be balanced for god's sake, no one has rebuked my arguments about possibly imbalances at all in the map's thread. Scout, you're right. Broodwarmaps has changed. A new generation of mappers is here, there are many new faces and few old faces. These new mappers like different styles of maps than the older mappers apparently. That's just what happens with democracy =/ |
| flothefreak |
| mapping on this site has always followed trends. standard maps had their peaks, and now it's loads-of-spells-and-mass-neutral-building-experimental-maps-season. it will change in a while again...just the way of nature |
| tktkvroom |
| in what way is Lysis experimental or imbalanced? |
| DG)SpoilR |
| @tktkvroom Obvious they don't point to your map,they talking about common trends and about those who follow them,like Nightmarjoo.His maps are full of this kind of trend-stuff.Also his arguments,suppoting those trends are evry time a bit worser than his previous. So Galaxy dont offer nothing new but the previous two motw deliever that -Nastys Azalea concept- and Ardens -Gaia meets Arcadia-.A huge flush of new ideas,indeed.I dont saw Nightmarjoo complaining about anything,but against Galaxy he is very busy in his review,cause the maker(s)of this map are not active anymore,and cant defend their work. After all this map is not so standard like he wanna make us believe.The nat setup surrounded by 3 pathes are not so common used.Also the lateral part of the map is also not very familiar.He claim also this map is imba.Try it again with some glasses!Your are that sort of people wich complain that even shah is imba,because white has the queen on the left and black on the right side.Maybe a color imba too?You act like the americans before the UN when they try to full the rest of the world about the great peril-Iraq-.Do you believe people are stupid or blind! I read your list of the 10 best maps ever maded.Under you 10 the most have a considerable worser balance than this map,like Luna... |
| Nightmarjoo |
| luna racially imo is balanced well, but like most non bwm maps has bad positional balance =/ If you think Deliverance is a gaia/arcadia clone then you're retarded, 'nuf said -.- Yeah, I'd have to agree that Nasty's map will play very similarly to azalea, but it's still has unique features, and is in no way a clone. I do think there were better motw choices that week, for example nasty's other map... but w/e. I don't appreciate your attack on the American people, you fucking ass wiping shit head from whatever shithole of a country you live in. It was not the American people who said Iraq was a danger, it was the Bush administration, the rich people who have something to gain from taking Iraq's oil. You act like all Americans support this, well do some research you fucking ingnorant gentile shit cleaner. SpoilR, no one else ever votes for GP. You and Grief do, and that's it -_- it got 5 votes for moty somehow, and no one has cared about it since. And Nazca, which many people hate, got what, 9? And what about my maps? I'd love to get your criticism in my threads, but you don't comment my maps ever -.- You say my maps are "trendy"? Hardly, my three latest maps were all noted for being "unique", nothing like any other map -_- I imagine then, that you are talking about the use of spells in maps, and I guess you could call it a "trend" even if not very many people are doing it -_- Yeah a nat with 3 paths is really unique, it's just rushhour with an extra stupid path, zomg! You say I am wrong about my theorycrafting on the map, you say I'm blind, yet you don't actually adress what I mentioned, so your arugment holds no merit. |
| lnept |
| this MOTM is useless, still people voting without testing, please go back to MOTW asap |
| Lancet |
| Well, I would not use Nightmarjoo's language but I do agree that you should not put all Americans in the same group. Many of us saw clear through Bush's alarmist language and spotted his lack of competence that is now showing so clear and tragically. As to maps, LOL, I have a party prepared for the day one of my maps gets even one vote here! Hope it is soon as the champagne bottle may freeze and crack! |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lnept, that is exactly what I expected to happen, that is why I was reluctant to go to motm. But Nasty insisted upon it, and Arden had some nice ideas, so we're trying it =/ |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I like my maps up here a lot -_- I would vote for Angband 3600 ft. but I have not tested it yet, and I think it is superior to Iuppiter, but Iuppiter is nice too imo. Remember guys we need votes to determine a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winner, please place multiple votes in a comment, on top of voting through the poll =/ |
| Lancet |
| First Choice: Marja, simple map and I liked the back door concept with the neutrals and the replays were fun and showed how the back door was exploited. Second: Iuppiter 1.1, I liked the spells that included swarms (we need more maps with swarms!) but the asymetry of the "continents" turned me off a little plus that out of the way large island, but replays were OK. Third: Jericho, nicely executed, interesting concept in the neutrals with dwebs for horizontal play but for vertical will be irrelevant. Also not sure how relevant those other dwebs in the central area will be in this island map. |
| Alumni |
| 1) Marja 2) Galaxy Prime 2.0 3) Jericho |
| Alumni |
| "A new generation of mappers is here, there are many new faces and few old faces. These new mappers like different styles of maps than the older mappers apparently." - Nightmarjoo I still prefer the standard maps, just a little (minimal) amount of spells/neutrals makes gameplay more interesting. I think that a lot of maps have too many of them like overkill but it's the new 'trend' and even I use them in my maps, just not as much with the exception of Moon Shrine which looks nice, plays pretty well minus the pathing issues if you don't kill the stasis cells... |
| Nightmarjoo |
| thanks for voting, especially giving multiple votes, that helps a lot :) Hmm did you guys read what I had said about Marja? I think it's a bad map =/ The top is way too tight, the bottom is way too open, the bottom is mostly useless as it has so few, and so badly placed expos, and the top's expos are too close to really fight over. Top with all those ramps is terran paradise, and the fact that the bottom is anti terran won't matter since it's so useless. And it has some shitty ass pathing -.- |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hah I like how no one likes my maps :) Looks like only reason lancet voted Iuppiter is for the two swarms which may not hold any purpose in the gameplay >< Not to mention Angband 3600 ft. is a much better map, and has swarms too! -.- |
| flothefreak |
| 1) lysis roxxx and has style 2) Jericho is cool and innovativ, games have to show if the concept works - a lot of games. still, so cool idea it gets motw vote, as it is an attentioncatcher 3) angband made it against harakiri, because it also has interesting features/structure, while you can hardly call harakiri balanced...dunno why, it just looks like there's something not fitting. |
| tktkvroom |
| Joel just cuz you dont like Marja...the map doesn't mean ppl can't vote for it. No its not like I want it to win or anything |
| lancet |
| The replays in Marja did not raise the red flags that the replays say in lysis raised. I don't think the theorycrafting reflects the real situation. Angband 3600 ft. may be a good map but it is an island map which I don't like that much plus Iuppiter has the swarms closer to the battlefield, looks better and has replays. Also Nightmarjoo, don't complain about people not liking your maps, hey at least they show up in the map thread to tell you how lousy they are. My maps on the other hand are by and large ignored! : ^ ) Finally, err....guys, I don't want to name names but I think it is very tacky to vote here for your own maps. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hmm I was talking to Nasty about it, I said something about I think voting your map one point would be fine, he said even 3 points to your own map wouldn't be bad, since the 5 point will count so much more. But 5 points is a lot lol. |
| LostTampon |
| hm, the voting system seems to be fucked up a bit because of the previous (older) votes + some players want to test some maps of this mappack? --> forum, Thread Gaming :) |
| NastyMarine |
| cuz they havent revoted i supoose |
| Nightmarjoo |
| panschk will reset this so the voting can be set straight. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hmm I think I'd like Lysis to win first, maybe Angband 3600 ft second place, and space ship for honorable mention kinda thing in third; I think it's nice map, but idk about 1v1 =/ Harakiri is just imo not balanced at all, I can post what I said to nasty through aim on the map's thread if you want radix. Jericho is a nice map, but it reminds me of the new starleague maps =/ |
| lnept |
| feedsomebodySSoul easily best map on here, too bad that guy just uploaded a couple maps and left. |
| DG)SpoilR |
| This impertinent little wight,Nightmarjoo!check how he talks to me"...you fucking ass wiping shit head from whatever shithole of a country you live in." Is the common language changed so much in the last 24 hours?I thought I wasnt away for a long time.Perhaps he expect from me a answer to this.Sorry,but for such things I have no answer,not now,not another time.He maybe learn to read and to write but even the easiest context is to hard to understand for him.I said "he acts against Galaxy like the americans before the UN,when they try to fool the rest of the world about the great peril-Iraq".He conclude that I meant with -americans- the entire american nation.How,for the world,should they do this?How can,all of them,fit in the UN-building and talks with one voice? Just a madman like him can conclude this! Of course,I have spoken about the american delegation.Btw,Lancet if the most of the americans are not agreed with this kind of politics,can you tell me why the majority in the USA have voted this administration again? Cause the Bush aadministration start with the war against Iraq long before the last election,not to mention Guntanamo,Abu-Ghureib.But honestly I dont think it's the right place to talk about such things. Because of all this,his common behavior,not to forget his manipulations in the past,censoring of normal comments,distorting of facts,I see for the future no meaningful reason why should I talk to this subject again. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Yeah I'm an evil manipulative censoring wight. Please hate me so much you leave the site. I should do what lnept reccomended a long time ago, and ignore your dumbass. |
| tktkvroom |
| holly shit this system of voting is stupid & confusing |
| Nightmarjoo |
| it's only confusing because you're stupid, it's not the voting system which is stupid. You just pick three maps you like, your first pick gets 5 points, 2nd gets 3, last gets 1. That too hard? oO I played one with scout on angband 3600, lysis, and feed somebody soul. FeedSomebodySSoul is like wtf. The nat has four entrances, good luck defending it, especially since it's so far from the sl. tvp will likely be hard, since the main is low with the nat being high, and the 4 entrances only make it easier for protoss and harder for terran. There is no place to put your ovy, not to mention the nat is unholdable as zerg. Oh and the mineral formations suck balls. Scout proxy raxed me on Lysis, so that ended very fast. I don't care for the nat/ramp placement. lol Angband 3600 ft. is a weird map to play. Scout was talking on skype so it couldn't be too much of a game, but there's a couple things I noted. One, that the swarm definitely makes drops interesting. Scout was pretty sure that the swarm would hurt terran very much so, he said imagine a ultra/ling drop in it. I thought that since no unit can from the swarm can hit a miner or the sl. Now I spose a large late game big drop in the swarm would do a lot of damage to a terran main. But wouldn't a big drop in late game without a swarm do pretty much the same? At the very worst, z can hide as many lings/ulrta in the swarm as they can, and t would have to siege around it =/ but that's dumb, that doesn't help z at all imo; what the swarm does do is make early on drops more interesting... but I can imagine tvt drops being kinda deadly... well t in tvt would have to get mines to mine up the swarm, and that shouldn't be too much of a problem =/ Now something I noticed, but Scout said was no problem, I made my 12hatch at the gas and then a 3rd hatch at like 14 or 15 at the nat, essentially zerg can get 2gas very fast, much faster than any other race. Is this an imbalance? Should I put a mineral block or something blocking the place to build near that gas? |
| Lancet |
| Spoil, Isaid "many" but you only need 50% plus of votes to get elected. Anyway, enough said about this. With regards to this voting system there is a discrepancy in the votes. For example I count a total of 6 votes for "Angband 3600 ft." below (1st plus 2nd plus 3rd) as of today (4-13-07) but the counter on top reads 18! |
| Nightmarjoo |
| 1st choice is 5 points 2nd vote is 3 points 3rd choice is 1 point |
| DeSade |
| Deadline is too short imo considering you have to wait one month now to get your next chance. |
| DeSade |
| Week period? Maybe I got sth wrong. Can someone explain how it actually works now? |
| Lancet |
| OK, I didn't know about the point system, thanks for the clarification, this looks better than the old system. |
| Lancet |
| With respect to the swarm discussion, terran siege tank fire can destroy units within swarms, only units that are burrowed will not be hit. A terran drop on a swarm can be dealt with by mines as pointed out above and also by sieged tanks. You can always spare a couple for defense. |
| Grief_Stricken |
| lol -_- !!! angband: positional & raced imba,with stairs as entrys,with tankable mains,and those mineral lines on the plateau,to howl auuuuhhh!reminds me on the maps in the missions with all the stair and stuff.stukov were are you? under a web,try to find me,if you can...mazy junk are you people lucid,or drunk like nasty? who you really believe will play this trash you voted... hey @ spoilr you wanna know why they voted in the usa the republ.again? just look into this voters list and you will become very quick your answer. you got it! dumbasses are always and everywhere in the majority.you cant force anyone to hear wagner or bach.if they want elton john and britney spears let them do so. |
| lancet |
| Hittler listened to Wagner, what good did that do to humanity? Don't you think we would have been better off if he had listened to Britney or Elthon? : ^ ) |
| tktkvroom |
| wtf happend to all the votes? |
| ScoutWBF |
| Well I (I am super-admin now) deleted all the votes because Arden and I made the deal that I get the MotM and he get's the MotW. This means that the vote was useless anyway. Yeah that's probably the reason :3 |
| Lancet |
| This is no joking matter, tktkvroom is right on the money with his question. What happened to all the votes? |
| LostTampon |
| i think the votes were reset because they were fucked up (because of the mixing of the old/new voting system) |
| Lancet |
| OK fair, I will add my votes again, but be careful with this sort of thing, people have been killed for less. : ^ ) |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hah for once I get to defend my own map :D Grief, those stairs actually seem to let most units go up and down, it's just that they slow mobility, seeing as though it's an island map, there is no racial imbalance there. As for racial imbalance with the cliffs around your base, you have the ability to destroy the neutrals and be able to get to them by land, but seeing as though it's an island map, you will have drop or air, or some form of a way to kill tanks -_- and if you don't, then you suck ass. With the stairs, they form positional differences because you cannot have inverts of them (or atleast I haven't seen it done, nor have I myself tried it), but your Galaxy Prime has the same thing with its ramps, and that will cause an imbalance, whereas I don't believe mine will. Now there is the possibility that some units cannot go up/down on one of the stairs and can on others, so far I haven't noticed that to be true, but I need to test that more. That would be a positional imbalance, but again idk how much land movement will be going on; terran will play it like an island map most of the time, not worry about ground movement much at all. The mineral line on the plateau is fine. Nah the map isn't junk, I've played it several times, so has lnept, and Scout played me once on it. Not like you yourself will take the effort to prove your theory crafting. The vote was reset by panschk because previous votes were not replaced with new ones, th0t and testbug had old votes, which prevented two maps from being able to recieve their numeral values at the top for votes they recieved. |
| flothefreak |
| inverted ramps at mains would cause more pos. imbalance than the current standard ramps do. beside that, galaxy is just far below other maps. |
| tktkvroom |
| move your votes on marja to lysis :D |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hey for those who are voting FeedSomebodySSoul, have any of you played it? Zerg cannot keep his nat unless he gets lucky, there are 4 fucking entrances. Not only that, how will terran beat protoss? If terran is lucky enough to get into his nat, he will have one hell of a time defending four exits -.- |
| tktkvroom |
| yeha that map just looks nice but doesn't play nice at all |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Nasty when do we need to decide maps by for Avaton? |
| the Golden |
| so I voted Angband 1st, Lysis 2nd, and Iuppiter 3rd. Angband is really weird, I like it. It's very original, and if I understand the concept of motm/motw w/e then you want unique and playable concepts. From the reps it seems playable. Lysis I like, it's also original. I would vote it first, but tvp could be a problem. Sounds good for testing though. Iuppiter is also interesting, but the mainland looks very boring, with just one path. I also wish someone who could properly do the proportional symmetry on it better, Nightmarjoo didn't do too well on it. Jericho isn't a finished map at all, he is still editing it it seems. FSS doesn't have balance from what I can see. Harakiri is not playable. Marja looks really awkward. Endorphine is just rofl. Regardant Hawkeye is nothing new lol, it's just an inverse with spells and neutrals whoopy. Outpost is an ok 64x64 map but nothing more. BOC is ok, but nothing new. It's like galaxy prime - Only playable. Radix asked for electric desert to be removed. Spaceship horiz pos are just wtf. Just wanted to say something and not have empty vote =/ |
| Listoric |
| done |
| Grief_Stricken |
| aaa...hahaha!!!this is the ultimate comedy site...uhuuu!! evrytime when galaxy prime was in a contest something happens.in the moty a "clever"whippersnapper erased the map from the contest,this time the votes have been erased.how nice! and always those weak alibis. @nightmarjoo "hey for those who are voting FeedSomebodySSoul, have any of you played it?"a good question!a also good one is:for those who are voted for angband(what a fu... name is this?)have any of you play it? or you intend it to play it in the future? actually the answer is NO.for evry question apart,thats for sure! @the golden(egg)-_- "BOC is ok, but nothing new. It's like galaxy prime - Only playable."so you looking for a unplayable one! aha!congratulations,you choose the right ones that fits in this category - unplayable @lancet i thought you are a bit more clever.so you believe wagner was the reason why hitler do what he's done? far from it!milions have listen wagner before and also after him,and havent become a new "hitler".your comprehension about history is very limited,just like you deal with logic. perhaps it's the result of too much elton & britney listening(or crap like this).btw you can find wagners great music even in this game(tip -in the end of the introd.-video of broodwar;that one with dugall & stukov) |
| lnept |
| I played both,, so yup i palyed on them |
| Arden(WoF) |
| Grief, when you insult another person's intelligence, you put your own in Jeopardy. Going on rants like that only gives those you insulted reason to flame you back. Not a wise move putting yourself at risk like that. I suggest you slow down and reason a bit before you start BWMN WWIX. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Grief panschk reset the votes because old votes were preventing the new votes from being tallied on certain maps, this was discussed in the forum. Panshck is not a "cleverwhippersnapper" Fuck you, don't disrespect panschk. I will point out that no one has voted for GP since the vote was reset. And who voted for it before it was reset? You and spoilr? lol... Grief I thought you are a bit more clever. oops no I didn't ROFL. Lancet is joking, you heard of sarcasm before? -.- If I'm not mistaken golden was calling GP unplayable. I wouldn't blame him. Have you watched the reps of angband? I have more reps than are posted. Yes, people will play it. Only your and Spoilr's friends have played GP, and myself to see if it was anything like you described, which it wasn't, and it was exactly as I described it. |
| the Golden |
| BOC > GP ez |
| lancet |
| Grief_Stricken, like Nightmarjoo wrote above I was joking (there was a smiling face at the end of my post). Sorry if that was not clear, I have listened to Wagner and think his music is great specially "The Ride of the Valkyries", which I believe is one of the best pieces of classical music ever created (and also a Starcraft map!). Unfortunatelly, the same music can mean different things to different people and inspire them to do similarly different things. |
| ScoutWBF |
| I demand to delete every single vote for FeedsomebodySSoul! |
| Grief_Stricken |
| @scoutwbf are you now nightmarjoos echo?i'm sure he wish the same thing -_- @lancet i overlook your sign,sorry!from your last comment i can resume that you are not really home inside the classic music.firstly "ride of valkyries" is just a part of a piece called "the valkyrie".at the best you become to listen a "best of" cd from wagner,i supose cause otherwise you wouldnt mention a chapter of a greater piece.on the other hand i think "the valkyrie"is a solid,good piece but not under wagners best creations.i think"siegfried","parsifal"and also"twilight of the gods"are much better.if you really wanna understand wagner you must try to understand the reasons behind his music.the most of he's creations are based on old german myths and legends.and if someone try to understand them as reality,that one is beyond any help. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Grief what do you think about FSS? |
| Alumni |
| I must say, as pretty or as playable as the well designed air maps on bwmn are, using them in Avaton as you see, have created problems with people knowing how to properly play air maps. Maybe not the knowing part but the practicing and strats part for an air map at least. Majority of players prefer land maps I find. (Even I try to avoid playing air maps) |
| ScoutWBF |
| Air maps are something special! Look at the newer RTS and you will see that there are no Air maps! Air maps are a feature that Starcraft has and that should be used. I love air maps and I never say no if somebody wants to play an air map! |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol when I asked you for a re on angband you said no thx ;) |
| ScoutWBF |
| Yeah cause I was not in the mood to play at that moment, not because of the map. |
| flothefreak |
| "I love air maps and I never say no if somebody wants to play an air map!" "when I asked you for a re on angband you said no thx" that's a jewel of true n pure scoutwbfidity |
| tktkvroom |
| i bet half of the maps voted by ppl here weren't even tested by them, they just think it looks good so they just vote for it |
| ptar |
| Yeah tk, your maybe right, but i have tested the 3 maps i have voted for. And other ppl, too. Imo the votes of the people that hasn't tested the maps aren't that deciding. I think here are a lot of good mapers wich can decide wich maps are good or bad. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| tk is just mad his maps didn't get in, he wouldn't be whining about people not testing maps they vote for if his map got in, just like me atm ;) Although several people who did vote my map did play it too ;) |
| tktkvroom |
| to tell the truth I'd rather have lysis running in a motw then a motm cuz idk motm just doesn't seem that much to me. As for the whole not testing a map & voting for it it's no wonder FeedSomeBodySSoul is in #1 it just looks good but plays like shit. Basicaly you have a main to a impossible to hold nat to the center to the other guy nothing in between. Everyone I tested it with fucking hated it. & joel wtf you mean it didn't get in its right there on the top of the list above regardanthawkeye ;) |
| flothefreak |
| no matter what the votes get, feedsomebodyssoul wont get motm. if somebody tries to make a newspost, i will delete right away with the map -.- |
| Nightmarjoo |
| hah what about 2nd or 3rd place for motm? ;) otherwise we are in trouble for picking three based off the vote^^ |
| flothefreak |
| yeas, 1st 2nd 3rd place motm seems very good to me. so we still have more than 12maps/year |
| Nightmarjoo |
| yeah but I meant how abuot FSS for 2nd/3rd place for motm based off vote =/ |
| lnept |
| ive yet to see an argument why any of the maps are better then FSS. angbang, which is in 2nd I played a couple of times. its fine but seems imbalanced racially. the nat with 4 entrances on FSS i thought would help zerg, too bad there isnt gas on the nat that is the worst problem. it will play like nostalgia early game imo |
| Nightmarjoo |
| only you can defend your nat in nostalgia |
| NastyMarine |
| Lysis lacks a flowing structured feel :/ |
| lnept |
| theres no difference. if you wanted to 3hatch on nostalgia you needed 5 sunks+ and it is no different on this map.. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| what? You can 2hatch on nostalgia and defend the nat and main with 2 or 3 perfectly... no need to 3hatch even... And I've played a lot of games on nostaliga as zerg... |
| tktkvroom |
| who is TSL? |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol Hey TSL, For2Motion, Herb, Control, Cucdas, long time no see. Just as last time, just because you guys come in and all vote for grig's map doesn't mean it will win anything =/ Also, it would be helpful if you guys explained why you like grig's map rather than come from mapdori and vote your friend's map -.- Or explain why some of the other maps are bad choices. |
| tktkvroom |
| or you could test some maps b4 voting for them |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Yeah says tk who doesn't even play sc anymore. |
| lnept |
| "if you wanted to 3 hatch" and no 2-3 sunks will not protect you on nostalgia rofl |
| Testbug |
| i had never seen Endorphine before. anyway, i love Lysis (don't know what are those black holes on it; lurkers? mistery black circle?) |
| Nightmarjoo |
| yes they will lnept oO |
| tktkvroom |
| what black holes? |
| Testbug |
| OMG, did not see marja! sorry Lysis :$ |
| Antares |
| oh endorphine returns with all the grigvoters. its sostrange why did they pick maps low on votes for even 2nd and 3rd choice.. its great to see that high enthusiasm towards grig |
| lnept |
| I flew to russia, crushed his translator with my bare hands, then put on my invisibility cloak like harry p0tt0r. that is why grig cannot post anymore |
| Falcon_A |
| ....<3 |
| flothefreak |
| he would still write "bad card" :o |
| tktkvroom |
| Testbug........engrish plz |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol @ alter.ego |
| Testbug |
| engrish? i didn't see Marja! it's beautifull, ut don't worry. i voted Lysis as 1 choice |
| lnept |
| 52 card pick up YowWWW stALiN RUlEz. product of GriG Edit: Grig is idiot spelled backwards |
| Grief_Stricken |
| well,again the hubris of the loser.delicious -_- inept insult a guy wich cant defend himself,because his not aboard(grig),and nightmarjoo on the other hand think that people havent the right to vote because they are not present day by day,like himself.idk if grig is from russia or not,but you two know alot more about what stalin rulez are and how they can be used.congrats! btw under all of inept maps its veeeeery hard to find a better map than grigs endorphine.cant you?(i'm sure inept can -_-) actually after galaxy p grigs map makes the best impression to me.yeah,this map contents also neutral buildings but they are placed with a little more reason,as delimitation and not as strangler for the gameplay.in my opinion their are too few resources,but even so the map is the second best in this list cause she allow a convenient way to play on.and to add a expo more for each player is not a big problem. you see nightmarjoo,evil fella like yourself always became their quittance in the end... |
| flothefreak |
| endorphine is okay, but gameplaywise, everything what goes beyond the natural is very uncomfortable to play. your argument on the neutrals is ridiculos btw... and as here are NOT so many people around, some fakevotes or votes of friends WOULD influence a strict poll HEAVILY. and as we're looking for a good map, and not for the guy who can bring most bw buddys to the poll, nonamers who have never shown skill or knowledge in mapping or playing are excluded from voting. |
| Antares |
| yeah flo got the point grief, you werent here when those guys abused motw voting week by week and not putting a single comment just vote on endorphine or another grigmap. seriously thats not the way it should be done. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Grief, please realize no one cares about your whining. If I made five new accounts and voted for my maps you would complain, but since I don't like grig's maps you support them. I don't see you whining about "Alter.Ego" who probably is you. Also, GriG is an idiot, you would know that if you had been here when he was active. Noobs who spam votes for their friend are not contributing to bwm, allowing that would be more corrupt than the bush administration. |
| Grief_Stricken |
| 1.i suggest you to consult a psychologist.diagnosis:paranoia 2.i dont need a second identity like you(the golden)to say what ever i have nor to push crazy maps 3."no one cares about your whining" - i dont do it,as proof i dont even have voted.you are the only one who cares about,so long i'm here.you are the one who manipulated moty,also you are the one who changed the voting system,because otherwise your stupid map wouldnt became more than 1 or 2 votes. 4.idk grig but i now you.you are a dishonor for this site.honestly i ask myself over and over again who gives you admin rights was surely out of his mind.and people like you have the courage to talk about coruption? you are the most corrupted under those admins... 5.and about damaging this site;how many have gone because of you? can you remember? i'm sure you cant.lgi,psychotemplar,dapixx...all those have given more than you to this site,btw... |
| Lancet |
| In the current endorphine version (5-2-07)zerg will certainly be able to get infected terrans and toss may be able to mind control one or two ultralisks (those are 800 HP) and maybe the arbitrer. What does Terran get? |
| Lancet |
| As to the discussion regarding the possibility of whether a given person can just make up some aliases or recruit some friends to vote his/her map to the top I propose the following: if a map gets a slew of votes from people who have not contributed to the discussions or posted any maps here, then don't count them. As to Endorphine also, look at the map thread. Many people have issues with this map. The author "Grig" doesn't seem to have a will of his own. He automatically updated the map with each set of comments and without any analysis of his own. He has not given us any input as to why he did what he did in his map. I just think there was not a lot of intelligence on display here. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| idk who the golden is but I do know that I'm not him. I didn't manipulate moty, I didn't change the vote, my map isn't stupid. LGI lurks here still; all of them left on their own account, I didn't tell them to leave. I remember all of those three. DapixX contributed nothing to the site, he just uploaded some maps and left because people didn't fall in love with his maps; he wouldn't listen to the suggestions of anyone nor did he help others with suggestions, so there was no reason for him to stay. Templar wrote an article for making pics, made some interesting maps, and ran that one competition (which many were unhappy with the way he conducted it), and he bmed me then left, good riddens. LGI contributed tons to the site, more than I have for sure, but no one made him leave. Who gave me admin rights? Panshck. If you can't respect his decisions then you should probably leave bwm. I am not corrupt, your fantasies of my "manipulations" are just that, fantasies, ie not fact. As for "dishonours" of the site, I think you're #1 atm. All you do is whine, you don't give suggestions on maps, you don't even make maps, you don't add anything helpfull or even try to, you just push a retarded map GP and whine because no one else likes it, I see nothing positive about you being here. |
| flothefreak |
| stop being bm, though. |
| NastyMarine |
| Jericho or Angband Will make a decision after seeing avaton reps tomorrow of angband. Im doing this b/c i was responsible for telling players not to play it as i was trusting the decision of the players saying that the map was buggy. also there have been edits. hopefully we see good reps. |
| Antares |
| actually dapixx left because of the gp-moty-incident.. what about FSS nightmarjoo? |
| NastyMarine |
| I'm NastyMarine t('.'t) Honestly, the map NEEDS an edit. I don't think we should do it b/c the author hasn't logged in at all in ages. There are clear cut things that need to be edited and since he is not active here, i don't we should reward him with our first MOTM ever. It wouldnt be fair for the mappers that are active and have map canidates in this comp. |
| Grief_Stricken |
| indeed antares,this moty-incident you mention is the manipulation of the moty-contest by nightmarjoo. nightmarjoo,this percy wetmore of bwmn erased a map with 5 votes(btw 1 vote behind the first placed map)just because he thought the map is not good enough.details can be found under competitions/moty 2006 also main forum/lgi vs nightmarjoo.that was a scandal,a outrage for this site and her good reputation - and you call this fantasies? that was one of your greatest contributions for this site.one of many... so,you remember lgi,psychotemplar and dapixx? but like always you distorted the truth about what really happens,and why this 3 are not anymore a part of bwmn.man you are a bad liar!!you not even can lie!!! - dapixx is gone because you ignored his vote by deleting the map he voted.details are under competitions/moty 2006 - lgi is gone because you typed -fuck lgi- in one of yours map,and anyone that plays this map would see this.details are under main forum/lgi vs nightmarjoo - psychotemplar is gone because you have insulted him in a game.details under competitions/pt enough facts for you? and now i tell you my opinion about those 3. lgi wasnt a nice guy,sometimes arrogant indeed,but you would never reach the level on he makes maps.that so sure like the amen in the church. psychotemplar have not the best maping skills but his understanding of the game was beyond any doubt.and he was agreeable fella. i cant say very much about dapixx,he leave nearly in the same time that i have join into bwmn.but i find enough time to download some of his maps before he erased them.after analyzing his maps i can say he was a pioneer as maper,he really tried out some new,unusual ideas.he go new ways with maps like magnolia,trapped under ice or dance of death.something what artanis would call - progress.he was definitely better than you.if someone is curious i can upload some of his maps. and about panschk i tell you this.if this would be my site and people would leave because of some admin i would fire his ass so quick a can.it's still unexplainable for me why he allow a madman to run riot and piss on evryone leg who's not agree with him. you also talking about helping others.you believe you are the right person to help noobs?to what end? to make maps like yourself? boah.you overestimate yourself totaly.you are not even able to help yourself. p.s.btw if someone dont know who's percy wetmore watch the movie -the green mile-.if you saw it than you know what i mean |
| NastyMarine |
| grief, please just shut the hell up. We don't want to argue anymore. Regardless of what YOU think, you are the minority here. I don't see any active members agreeing with you, and nor do i see any others for that matter trying to fight your agrumeants either. Your pissing and moaning is hurting your reputation even more and in turn is keeping you out of all discussions here. and thats the end of this discussion. |
| Grief_Stricken |
| covering a coward.this is the right answer,indeed.majority or not truth remains truth.and to tell the truth is pissing for you? think about who's reputation you trying to defend here. |
| NastyMarine |
| I am not defending anyones repuatation. I'm telling you that you should drop it regardless of how you see it. B.c if this whole argument was true then you'd see more members saying the same as you. and no one has. thats saying something. |
| Lancet |
| Guys, take this "debate" to the off topic forum please. Thanks. |
| For2Motion |
| WTF? I not GriG friend. I from Korea. GriG from Russia or maybe from Europe. Ask Korean Mapmakers for me. This is my vote! This site is corruption? See my map (4)Eudoxos - ID 1678. Fair dinkum. |
| flothefreak |
| if you are not a Grig friend, sorry then. but as he pushed many fakevoters to vote his map, we cant never be sure if there's one true voter among them. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| For2Motion it would be nice if you were more active on the site :) Also I can't help but notice that you appeared at the same time all the grig map vote spammers did, and left at the same time, then reapeared again now when they did and again voted a grig map. Basicly flo is right. |
| For2Motion |
| OMG. Strange west site and strange west peoples ... |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol what's so strange about showing up and saying someone to people about their maps once in a while? I'd like for you to be more active! :) |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Ok, guys, which map do you prefer, Jerico or Angband, and why? We'd like to finish this competition soon. |
| For2Motion |
| Jerico or Angband? Lol. You blind? First you see this maps. Not playable... Sorry but only korean map sites teaching you. |
| For2Motion |
| Of sure one admin map win again. Wellcome to corrupt practices. |
| NastyMarine |
| LOL @ For2Motion! AND PPL WONDER WHY WE DON'T ACCEPT VOTES AND OPINIONS FROM INACTIVE MEMBERS. LOOK AT THIS FUCKING RETARD. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| lol, thanks for making me appreciate grief so much more, his comments are far more intelligent sounding than that. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Angband vs Jerico, c'mon guys... feedback please! |
| lnept |
| nothing against europe but if your going to flame us with witty comments, at least get a better translator my god. almost worst tehn mosq's. "you are the 52 card pick up of a donkey's fool" "I laugh is laughing at you and you donkey card LGI" |
| Grief_Stricken |
| angband vs jericho.this is a joke,or not? firstly you have to answer us how you come to this result.so i conclude you have erased alots of votes.this is a evidence for me that the new voting system has prooved himself as weak and not able to offer anyone a decent overview. if you wanna see how ridiculous the entire situation is,let us consider just the first votes like in the old voting system.i mean the serious ones.and what we have now? jericho 2 votes(from listoric & antares) and angband 2 votes(excalibur & scout)+ 1 nightmarjoo.look how laughable the entire situation is.with 2 and respectively 3 votes you wanna nominate a motm.accept my deep sympathy!!!! and even if some of you believe endorphine become fake votes what is with fss?this map has 5 valid votes(arden,inept,nasty,ptar,salazar).so this map should be ignored because of what?if a map is allowed into a contest you can tell me in the end,like nasty says - the map need a edit.cause i supose your people think before you vote a map.and actually nasty voted also for this map. the only reasonable conclusion is that this entire voting thing is becoming useless,so long votes are ignored. you have the chance to stop fake votes by starting with a members list like i suggest,but this is also a way you are not prepared to go.this is for me a evidence of incapacity of those who rules this site.because your decision(jericho vs angband) is not based on facts(votes)or arguments.it's just a arbitrary decision and nothing more. nasty/nightmarjoo you lol in vain.considering all that i said this for2motion is right.cause all that can change the true result of this voting are abusing admins decisions.inept would call them stalin rulzz.hence,the winner wouldnt have any legitimation at all. |
| flothefreak |
| grief, you are not our savior, so stop behaving as anything we do would be totally wrong, and you'd have the legitimation and knowledge to change the whole system. this aint your site, but the site of our community, mostly of the CORE community. so you are welcome as member, welcome as mapper, and welcome to add new ideas/suggestions for the site. but for gods sake, STOP thinking you would do everything better than we do. your strict voting system DOES NOT WORK ON THIS PAGE AS IT IS NOW. WE KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER. you would get a "democratic" result, but the niveau and level of the presented maps would drop. so focus on the votes of skilled people is necessary. have YOU ever played endorphine? prove it to be a true worthy map. prove that none of the flaws we encountered in other maps is damaging (4)Endorphine. prove that the almost impossible 2nd expo does not hurt gameplay. prove that terran has a chance to push through the middle, esp. in horizontal and diagonal positions. only because endorphine look quite pretty, it aint the uber map. and again: stop being the new messiah... |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Sorry flo, you're a longtime member and skilled mapper, grief will automatically ignore you for that reason. Also, you're part of the evil admin crew, the most corrupt thing on the internet...! |
| NastyMarine |
| FSS is ignored mainly b.c. the lack of the author being active. he simply uploaded his map and never returned. Why should we reward him for that? And also we are dismissing it is because it needs edits. Players during the Avaton tourny complained about the openness of the nat and small mains. Other than that, it is a good map. So it should not be showcased as our MOTM which i may add is supposed to be our best map of the month. I will however show it off in the newspost as it was a favorite in voting though it doesn't deserve the crown of Map of the Month. |
| lnept |
| if its between jericho and angbang, angbang easily for me. Jericho is a piece of crap imo T_T sorry |
| Antares |
| and where are the reps that prove our wrong opinion about endorphine's worthiness? i will answer: there are no reps. there isnt ANY rep uploaded. isnt it so strange that the map seems very popular, but there isnt a DAMNED rep uploaded here? you have to let democracy fall on this site sometimes. totally democratic voting system would be dumb while the fairness and morality of some mapmakers is so queriable. thats all. i dont mind if my vote is ignored, i am not active gamer so my decisions cant be as considered as someone who does actually play the map many times. |
| Antares |
| i agree with nasty. there are no guarantees of mapghost to edit his map from time to time. if it wouldnt be necessary there should be even more reps uploaded to persuade us of its perfectness. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| Ah, I am liking where the conversation is going, but would rather if my map is to win, that it wins because people like it and it's a decent map, not because everything else sucks... I like Jerico. All the reps I saw on it looked really nice, I thought the gameplay was good. It's a unique map for sure, and I think it brings some interesting gameplay to the game. I don't see any big racial imbalances in it. Antares! I would never ignore your vote. You've been here longer than many people here, and are a good mapper. Playing sc isn't everyone's thing. I wish you were a little more active and talkative though ;) |
| Grief_Stricken |
| what the hell is unique on jericho?the placement of the webs? and angband is a failure.neither a intelligent concept that i can recognize,nor a decent gameplay is possible on this. i see some trying to find issues on endorphine,i advise them to look closer to this map. -stairs as chokes? -no chance to rush -where you should macro? -the placement of the min.lines on the plateau is more than hilarious.just take a look to 3 & 9.the gas is placed behind the min.lines.you would have access to the gas when you dont need it anymore. what makes this map good? honestly idk.but i'm willing to learn.just because the map has some reps,this doesnt makes her better.who like this map beside nightmarjoo? scout and excalibur..isnt it enough? NO. apart from galaxy and endorphine i cant see a map that is worth to be played.for me the best in this list.they are the only ones that offer a proper gameplay by minimal issues.if at all. |
| lnept |
| I can say the same thing about endorphine. Why would I want to play a map that I have played so many times before? 4 player map, with nat and 3rd expo all in your corner, then 2 islands, with big center. do you know how many times this has been done...nobody cares about these maps anymore. |
| flothefreak |
| grief, please. stairs as choke, no chance to rush. DUDE, it is an AIRMAP. A-I-R-M-A-P. go blame blizzard for having airmaps in the maps directory in the first place, they invented it! building space on angband is sufficient. actually, it is more than on endorphine. so this bounces back to you :o this gas-behind-minerals thing is a very cool setup that has been done before in some other maps. you can argue if it has its place on airmaps (which actually SHOULD be discussed), but it isnt like, you dont need that. any expo is better than no expo. an edit of the minerals can be considered on this map, though. but this isnt a "oh my good what a huge mistake"-thing like the openess of endorphine and the lack of a reachable second expo. |
| Nightmarjoo |
| I'm open to suggestions with anything honestly. What will make any of you like the map better? To my friend Grief: Stairs as chokes, what's wrong with them? Only unit that I've seen that can't access them are ultralisks, and I bet reavers too though I haven't checked them (no one will be using reavers by land in an air map lol); it further emphasizes the airmapiness of the map, while keeping non island play available. No chance to rush, flo answered that for me. What do you mean where should you macro? The building space imo is adequete if that's what you're talking about, so far I've heard no complaints about it either; not to mention I've played your GP and it has a horrible awkward main with the shittiest layout/room I've ever seen, and that includes Forte. What's wrong with the mineral line placement anywhere? Point out a real issue and I'll correct it. When would you ever not need gas lol? Only time I ever saw that was on an earlier version of Mirage ;) But even then it certainly mixed up the gameplay a bit, you argue against uniform strategies, with the same shit all the time and it certainly changed that. But I haven't noticed a gas surplus on this map. If that gas wasn't behind it the expo might not be used, this encourages use and early use of it. If the gas was not behind, it would just be another expo, and make gas very plentiful, certainly helping terran in a map that possibly already favours terran. What makes the map good? Well, I'm no judge since I made the map and of course am subject to bias, but I'll give it a shot. It's something different. It's something original, and if it's not, I'd like to see the map that came first lol. It tries a weird concept, one that I personally have not noticed any flaws in, or if I have then I've corrected them. It's an island map, which we don't see many of, but it's not solely island, nor is it completely semi island, it's sorta in between island and semi island. What's wrong with the concept? Hell, what's so radical about it anyway? As I said I think on my thread or maybe in here, it just uses a unique combination of many things which have already been executed. As for decent gameplay, watch the reps, or play it yourself. It works fine as an island map, it works alright as a non island map too if that's how the players choose to play. What's unique about Jerico? Are you kidding? I've never seen a map like it. It's another island map, only much more so a semi island map than mine. It uses a unique concept of mains which could be connected, or could provide a good expo. It's similar to Iron Curtain in that. Also, what's wrong with it? I see no flaws, having seen its reps, but not having played it myself. |
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