| flothefreak | | |
My newest creation, a 4-player-map on badlands.
I checked that tanks can't shoot mains from outside.
minerals on island have a value of 0, but NO, i won't remove them :P
The little-gas-expos are provided with a 1500-gas, and I forced HQs to lay exposed when taking those expos (didn't want the T-style of building the CC towards the own base for saving easier).
Wall-in possible with 1rax
Maybe you cannot see it, the bridges to the semi-isles are blocked so you can attack the workers from outside, but you cannot pass through.
I worked with tileset indexed again, because there was no other way to create a fair bottom center minonly.
The structure is quite simple, but I think it gives very cool strategical possibilities but also a very straight gameplay.
What do you think about it? |
| panschk | | |
| This map really has something special imo. You use the badland tileset very well and it has a nice original look overall. I'm pretty sure some frustrating unwanted-wallin situation in your tiny mainbases can happen easily, this map needs to be played a couple of times before becoming anything relevant to competitive play, like a MOTW candidate for example. Really, if you can make sure it plays well, no units get stuck by a comsat, at least 1-2 canons can be built to defend main, this map could be one of my favorites. |
| decafchicken | | |
| Looks...awesome. |
| Starparty | | |
Ok, i hate to be the one to say this, and its not like i really care, but still i have to show >_<
Expander.jpg)
This is quite a old map. I believe we start to suffer from this :P
modified by panschk[FP] |
| Starparty | | |
sorry for forgetting width, it will never happen again :P
cant you implement that in the code panschk? since evry image is uploaded 100% to be shown on this page |
| panschk | | |
no, i can't.
At least not yet, maybe I find a way one day -.-; |
| panschk | | |
| and btw flo's map looks much cooler;) |
| Starparty | | |
| never said anything else |
| flothefreak | | |
thx for positive replys :D
I put much more effort in this map than in my last :> It's maybe because of my affection to the badlands-tileset-style :D
and well, SP: the map you posted is very different, though there are some similarities. :) |
| Starparty | | |
well as said yours is betetr executed since it is newer and got more knowledge behind it. But the small hil to build below and the shape with 4 hills in the center is quite similar.
But i have never shown this map to anyone realy so i wouldnt think of balming anyone for anything, its just a funny coincidence.. perhaps we are twin spirits? :D |
| flothefreak | | |
:D
or I just broke into your house searching for new map concepts :O
^^ |
| Starparty | | |
| oh damn,that was you? |
| flothefreak | | |
so, is there anything you would suggest to improve?
If not, I'll maybe do a little design-update and move it to user-final |
| flothefreak | | |
no design update, but moving it to user-final
noone seemed to see a need for bigger changes, so I want to hand it over to your rating judgement :) |
| Starparty | | |
| you should move purple main so it has similar ramp like other pos. now its right to the exit. |
| flothefreak | | |
yeah, I know that-
unfortunately, I dunno how to make this without exposing it more to attacks from outside (drops, ht doing psi from below, tanks) or giving purple much more space around the HQ as the others
one of those scenarios will happen when I try to move the start-hill to the right :/ |
| flothefreak | | |
well, changed purple's mainhill a bit so I could move the ramp a bit away from the choke.
also edited green base to enable comsat- I had tested that, but it seems that I resigned the mainbase a bit while doing the design part :> |
| Starparty | | |
| all bases except purps can be hit by tanks from outside base. how about simply putting the main hills in the corners instead? |
| LGI | | |
| The map looks great! Very netural. You've put a lot of work on it. I will played for sure! And this map needs to be played to say more about it. But i will play the map after you fix the purple base. Starparty is right... |
| flothefreak | | |
every base can be hit from outside, but the mainhill points towards the mapedge and lies behind the natural. If I move purple main to the right now, it can be hit much easier
but I think I found a solutuion, look at the update. |
| flothefreak | | |
| made a little design update, too. |
| Your Name | | |
| Your commenti still say move all bases to corners |
| Starparty | | |
| / |
| flothefreak | | |
nah, don't want that...looks better like it is now.
changed purple and teal main again a bit because of units spawning out of eggs below the hatchery were messed up for a few seconds. |
| LGI | | |
| You mean the purples location right? Because before the last update i see that if a zerg is on this location, and he makes hidras or ultras or whatever it is will be very hard to pass trough all workers, because the space was blocked. So now you fix this? I am asking because i am still not very sure from the jpg. |
| flothefreak | | |
yap, exaclty that.
Now it's only a tight passage, but at least there is one now^^ |
| Listoric | | |
i really like it, Z has easy time defending his main at startup, because you can swiftly build two sunkens near the choke. Blue and Purple can build 2 hatcherys on they cliff, the others can`t, which would make me really really angry as zerg. because there is a itme where i don't want to fast expand. and then, i'd have to build my hatchery on lowground, whcih makes it more vulerable to drops the the other part of your base.
Any real Zerg gamers here? |
| flothefreak | | |
| well, I actually don't want zerg players to build 2nd hatch on their hill. I think I'll just modify blue and purple base so there won't be a second hatch possible. |
| Listoric | | |
| well then better leave it like it is and make it a positional imbalance. |
| flothefreak | | |
| Ya, I also thought about this. But I'll think about both possibilities and perhaps also wait for further comments. |
| flothefreak | | |
| well, and if you put 2nd hatch on your cliff, you won't be able to set 1 or 2 decent sunks to defend properly, so you should actually lose a defence advantage. So the chokehatch (which is what I wanted ) would be better I think. |
| LGI | | |
| Well actually i am a zerg user. And for me this is a very big problem that i can't set my hatchery next to my other buildings. I am a player that use very often for defence his drones, and buildings postions. If you remember the replay on (4)Fatality. You will know what i mean. Also 1/2 of my stratagys are with a hatchery next to the first one. I actually start to play like that 80% of my games to be 100% sure that i will live in the begining. So this is a real problem for me. The only thing that can fix this is longer distances betwen me and the other player. So i would be 100% sure that everything is going to be fine. |
| flothefreak | | |
so you go for FE in (maximum, not to meantion chokehatches) 20% of the games?
do you play ZVT from time to time?? |
| LGI | | |
Wanna try me what FE? :P
Look i don't play like every zerg. I hate to be lame. I hate to do whatever the others do. So thats why i don't save/watch replys. I make my own style. And still... i win! |
| LGI | | |
| Just an example of what i often do. 3 hatchs mass zerglings and queens with ensnare. But not every time. Some times i move a little faster to hidars except lings, because of the firebats. But queens rulz. I get it as fast as mutalisk on ZvZ. |
| flothefreak | | |
I want to see you doing one-gas one-base queen tech vs terran.
and I don't mean a average terran, not a newbie. |
| LGI | | |
| Hehe, i will make you replays for you ;) . You can even see me to take over a terran with sunks. How? You will see :P . Btw one lurk is 125 gas 125 minerals, one queen 100 minerals 100 gas. |
| Listoric | | |
| Queen rocks. <(^^<) |
| flothefreak | | |
yeah, but a lurker is a tarned unit that can attack with splash damage as often as you want.
A queen needs to wait until it can put ONE spell |
| LGI | | |
Well i play with queens a lot so believe me first it's not only one spell, and second an ensnared marines can be killed with EVERYTHING! Also it's not every easy to kill a marine army with lings and lurkers. Marines can kill at lest 2 lurkers while they are trying to sorund the terrans army. Not to mention that after that he runs with marines, and the tanks still left to attack them from range. Well thats most of the games vs good terrans, am i right?
Queen rocks :D |
| panschk | | |
| We just had a game and it didn't play that well. SP had trouble even build his tech as zerg, and when I had scan problems began in base, I could only build one turret. make mainbases a bit bigger pls :[ |
| Starparty | | |
| dont force players to build anywhere else unless theyre actually winning on doing so. |
| flothefreak | | |
ok, I will enlarge the mainhills.
sp: well, if I let them build where they want, they'll put their HQs very near to their mainroute which is more safe and will aid T most I think. |
| flothefreak | | |
made the changes:
enlarged the mainbases' hills and did the same to the bases themselves, with regard on how much terrain I took away from it.
Now the ecoline should be defendable on all pos.
like it now? |
| travin | | |
| make all center cliff expos non "ramp" or make them all with real ramp beacause its much easier to move up with a non ramp |
| travin | | |
| and it looks very zerg friendly, remove 2 mineral expos and make the natrual easier to defend as p and t |
| flothefreak | | |
hm, ok...
I actually put the 2mineral expos for zerg should be able to get a 3rd gas in acceptable time. but this was before putting gas onto the semi-isles. I'm gonna remove those because even when it's 666gas in it, it's still too much on the whole map.
I also thought about the ramp thing, and it seems sensible to me, so I'll do it
thx for helping |
| travin | | |
| the thing is the small expos reminded me of arizona, and that map was impossible for pvz even with a huge 10 mineral nat. the thing is also small highground mains are also very good for zerg beacause 3 sunk 1 lurk and a spore takes very much to kill for a p so when adding this together it would be very hard |
| travin | | |
imo you should try to make the islands a little bigger move the 2 mineral things to there
how does the small center hills work ingame beacause i just watched the map in editor and realised that they are very small |
| flothefreak | | |
I created the center hills that way so there won't be a problem with comsat for example, and there is enough space for defensive buildings, though not for 5sunks/canns.
see the update, changed the map. re-arranged the 3h minonly at this opportunity. Things to think of are now a) maybe removing the rocky-grounds at the main route now for they don't serve any purpose any more, b) how to change the isles after taking away the "little 2min/gas-expos"
I think there are enough minerals on the map, and 4 isles with each one gas-supported should be enough gas anyway...
So I actually tend to leave them as they are... |
| travin | | |
yeah looks better with the hills
i think the 6' island is good size and you should try to make the other island same size if not to hard. and having the small cliffs will be a smaller prob since its easier to enter them with the non ramps |
| flothefreak | | |
ok, you really helped me.
re-designing the islands will be hard, though. I'll see about that, I would have to change a lot for this little thing^^ |
| Starparty | | |
| is it supposed to b a nulltexture area at the bottom right exp? |
| flothefreak | | |
no, it's not
honestly, I have no idea how this happened. I updated the map, but I won't make a new image cuz of this |
| flothefreak | | |
added a rep versus a clanmate. he was dropped out of game in the end, but I was as good as dead, so I uploaded it.
Had some problems with building placement ( 8[ ) and a mother that entered my room in midgame and babbling to me for the rest of the game, so I was "a bit" distracted 8[ |
| panschk | | |
| flo, please look through the standard setting (map description, race settings) you could improve it there:) |
| flothefreak | | |
noone has seen this. never 8[
lis=liar
:> |
| panschk | | |
| I will try to get the replay of the game I played with Lis yesterday. Some very strange thing happened at the top right's position mineral only expansion, workers were stopping to gather there all the time. |
| flothefreak | | |
uh?
I really would like to see this.
I'm going to check in the editor if there is something bad with the mineral placement... |
| Starparty | | |
| i really think that the bases should be big enough for zerg to stay there, but small so t and p has t go down. |
| Listoric | | |
oh yeah, panschk workers decided to make a breakb and had a nice discussion below the hill. entertaining.
think it has to do with the position of the "ramp". just expand on the left hill an send your workers mining. |
| Listoric | | |
| btw, i think this map is somehow terran favouring, not to a point of imbaness i guess, but still favouring a bit thoruhg the hills which are accessable when you attack a base. |
| panschk | | |
I uploaded the game I wrote about. Please don't look to close at the action, it was a horrible game^^
Another thing I noticed is that wallins don't work on some positions, for example at the top right, afaik there is no possibility to wallin zealot-safe there. |
| flothefreak | | |
aw, shit, I didn't test wall-in after rebuilding the mainhills for enlarging. going to do that.
thx 4 rep, gonna watch it right now |
| flothefreak | | |
strange bug in the replay. well, I rearranged a few minblocks that COULD have been the origin of this scv-behaviour. I actually removed the outmost minerals and put them towards the middle of the expo-mins. then I tested if I could reproduce the scv behaviour, but on every minonly they mined totally normal.
made a little graphical update of the map. also tested wall-ins, to be seen here:
njoy playing now, bug should be fixed |
| panschk | | |
| It was really strange, never seen that before. Maybe we should ask some ppl with knowledge like Mengsk, haschischtasche or Bill or someone. I really never experienced that before. |
| decaf | | |
| Didnt read the rest of the thread, but as a zerg player, i would want to be able to build 2 hatch in main. |
| flothefreak | | |
hm, at the moment you can do that only at top positions. on bottom ones, you cannot because of distance to mineral/gas. But as it is really IMPOSSIBLE to enter a choke defended with 1-2 sunks and lings and hatchery as blockade, I actually think of putting a few little doodads into top mains. So you had to put your 2nd hatch in the pit.
example: teal pos, GMCS-mark. look to see what I mean.
done like this, you have no chance in pvz to do ANY pressure...and only by one lonely sunk. |
| flothefreak | | |
still, 2nd hatch in main should of course be possible, in general.
but I actually think I should deny this here to make early game more interesting and prevent "zerg-bunkering". zerg can do 2 ways of chokehatch anyway (if you don't count the starthatch itself), below the ramp and at the chokepoint between rock walls.
and although the natural is a bit exposed, it still secures the base entrance...
but I'd like to have some other opinions on that issue |
| panschk | | |
Well, it limits the player, that's no good thing in general. Do you feel like it's a zerg friendly map overall, then it might be ok to make it harder for zerg, esp. vs toss?
I don't know, I probably would allow 2. hatch but if you forbid it (on every pos then ofc) I could understand it too. |
| flothefreak | | |
| hm, I made a decision. regarding PvZ, I tended to forbid 2nd hatch to prevent ultra-safe-zerg. but in TvZ, I think, Z still needs some support, because on close positions, neither chokehatch nor fe is really easy to hold. So I granted Z the option of 2-hatching. now you can actually put a third hatch on mainhill, too, but this one won't be placed as good as the other. |
| flothefreak | | |
ok, I actually found out how this bug is caused. it seems that the tileset ramps have to do with it. I could re-make this bug as often as I wanted, and it works even with normal units, and you don't need buildings either T_T
whenever a minblock is blocked (a chain of units or a building) so units can't reach it, this bug happens. when you try to move a scv mining there or just order a units (by right-clicking) to go to that block, the AI is confused. normally, like it is when you try to move a unit up a blocked ramp, the unit just starts to move silly up and down in front of the blocked ramp. but in this case, it even goes a bit more towards AI-confusing. The tileset ramps seem to say to the AI, that there is a passage that leads to the BACK of the mineral block. I assume it's because of the tilesetramp that every cliff is considered as "walkable ramp"
So every unit you try to move to a blocked/not reachable minblock, starts heading for the (not existing) 2nd route. but when it tries to enter the cliff at a place EXCEPT the ramp, it doesn't work obviously. So the unit walks down the ramp and wants to re-enter the cliff in the shortest route. But as there is no ramp, it stop when arrived at the cliff-spot where it wanted to go up actually.
you can do this as often as you want. I even made a chain of firebats that blocked with the CC a few minblocks totally. whenever I tried to move another unit (non-scv) to a minblock, it didn't even try to go the straight way (cause it's blocked for AI) but immediatly turned around to leave the cliff.
So, long story short:
I remade the minerals at the minonly expos, so you can't do this bug damage with just 1 building (sunk, turret) accidentally. But one can't prevent this totally, because you still could rise this bug with 2+ buildings. So I think this is enough now. As I can't prevent it from happening, I made it at least to prevent it from happening by accident.
If you really want, you can still fuck up your economy by putting 2 buildings in a stupid way, though :) |
| flothefreak | | |
made sure melee-version and pic are the same (I have no doubt that there should be images of the maps in the mappack by standard!).
added obs version for the mappack.
I am sure obs version is made correctly, but for I didn't make any for a while, I'll test it right now, though, if I find someone. feel free to check it yourself, you'll need scmdraft if you want to do it in an editor. |
| flothefreak | | |
actually the only thing I'm not totally sure about is the following trigger:
force2 (observers):
non-allied player owns at most 0 buildings -> win for the current player
(so that obs "win" in the end. it's mostly for better feeling than the "you lost"-msg^^)
should work the right way, or did I miss something?
ah, and if someone stoops to comment the map itself one more time, I would be pleased so I can maybe even improve it before publishing this mappack :) |
| flothefreak | | |
| gonna have to test obs vers tomorrow or the day after, got problems in connecting to bnet right now |
| XuuL | | |
puh.. lot of comments ^^
since u asked about any improvements in due to the bwmaps mappack, here are my suggestions:
- there is no defendable natural, make the room around the nat little more narrow.. especially on 10
- the main at 10 looks like it needs an upgrade :)
- imo, the ramps leading to those "hills" dont look good, either take standard ramps or.. hm.. improve the existing ones ?
- those small expos at the border of the map are rly small ^^ and maybe make them as minonlys ? u dont have any minonlys yet on that map
hope it gonna help u |
| flothefreak | | |
the 10o'clock main has actually a bit more building room because of it's uncomfortable shape^^
and there are 4 minonlys on those hills :D
and if I change the isles into minonlys, there wouldn't be any 3rd gas in 2on2 :7
actually, in the games I made, the natural was okay to defend...and I like it the way they are nnow, but I`ll nevertheless think about that, thx ;)
why don't you think those ramps look good? i really liked them ingame, plz be more precise what you point at, so I can change it :)
I'll review the ramps this afternoon, and I'll think about the rest you said, thx, though I can't promise to change those suggestions^^
of course you helped me :> |
| LGI | | |
Well one of mine first posts were about purps base. Now i will write again. Fix purps base. It's more protected. Imagine if i am terran, and push from the entrance. I will hit the main, mierals, gas to every player, and i can hit almost the all main base. Well purps is a little protected on that, i will hit less things for sure.
And my suggestion is to put some more doodads behind each first expand of all players. So tanks cann't get so deep behind it. That way the main bases will be more secured. |
| panschk | | |
Don't change too much! This map had something special when I played it, don't make another "standard" map out of it.
About XuuL's comments: The exposed natural is great. Zerg can still sunken up if he needs to, but the better choice is to play more with mobile units, it is possible to get behind your opponent's natural mineral line pretty easy on all positions. Zerg can take advantage of the layout himself if terran expands early and zerg goes lurkers.
I don't see a problem wth 10 main.
The ramps look fine too me;)
There are min onlies, the expanions on the hills in the center are mineral only expansions. I also begin to like those small island expansions. They are ofter forgotten ingame, so they should at least not be too valuable (I still won a game just because of them already;))
LGI, if a terran has a solid contain in front of your _main base_, it is only a matter of time until you are dead anyway, that's really a pretty rare scenario.
Only thing _I_ would change would be ramp at greens main base, there were already two games where units acted stupid near them (Once sliding probes got stuck in Listoric' Gateways, an other time A goon got blocked at the ramp in an other game). Well, don't know if it has anything to do with the map or it's just the player's fault^_^; |
| XuuL | | |
:o must be rly late yesterday... i didnt saw that those expos at the hills are minsonly :D
hm, those ramps have failures if u watch a replay of the map... not rly bad ones, but u see them ^^
dunno if its okay for u.. u have to decide ;)
well, the defendable nat is rly important i think, there should be at least one narrow area where u can defend it
just imagine u play p vs z and zerg goes fast hyds... p will never ever gonna make it on that map
u remember "Enter The Dragon" ?
it also had no defendable nat, but it had a very close fly-by... maybe u can turn those small expos at border into such fly-bys ^^ |
| panschk | | |
You mean the 12, 3, 6, 9 expos? They are^^ The bridges are blocked;)
Enter the dragon is a pretty well balanced map btw. Even though the natural is mineral only there, it shows that exposed naturals are possible. |
| XuuL | | |
the bridges are blocked ?
ah okay.. doodads ^^
dont look nice too in replays i think, well... enter the dragon is very imbalanced, advancing protoss (winration ~45%)... thats y its not used anymore at any events
|
| panschk | | |
if you refer to PGT statistics, they are not really relevant. Protoss have more wins, because they have more games. Protoss players chose this map because it is better for them than LT for example, that does not mean it is imbalanced.
I would prefer not to change it, if we agree after mass gaming that for example Z has no chance in TvZ, we can still update it. |
| XuuL | | |
| percentage implicates relativity :P |
| flothefreak | | |
goons getting stuck on ramps happen from time to time, sometimes it helps to try different commands on them, if not, you have to attack them. but this has nothing to do with green's ramp :)
probes getting stuck between gates/pylon is also quite common. it depends somehow on the pyl/gate-structure and the direction the probes came from and the one they're heading to.
I'll review the ramps and isle-blockades.
thx for comments :)
LGI: read what panschk wrote. when a terran get's a contain up at your very base, the game is over, no matter if he hits everything to pieces from below, or is just doing the half and moving then on to the rest ;p |
| flothefreak | | |
looked over the ramps and bridge-blockades, removing a few misplaced tiles. it looks better now, there were a few that didn't really fit. at top isles, there was even a totally mis-clicked bridgepart :o
thx, updated melee+obs. |
| panschk | | |
Don't want to go OT, but:
A winning percentage of 48% is below 50%, so how is it toss favoring? I'm pretty sure you refer to pgt statistics, where the percentage of wins by each race is counted. From 100 wins, 48 may be toss wins, which is above average if you have 3 races. But if from the 200 players involved, 100 were protoss, the winning ratio would actually be below 50%. That's why pgt statistics are not very worthwile, and why I keep saying they should change them. |
| flothefreak | | |
update:
As in panschk's replays the protosses were struggling with holding their base against zerg, I realized that PvZ would be extremely difficult on this map, maybe even imbalanced.
So I wondered why I didn't think of this earlier:
I made the entrances smaller, so you can block them with 2 zealots lingsafe (if done correctly, it's not everytime obvious how to do, so I'll make a picture of it on every position. would it be possible to add this image to the BWMN-mappack?), furthermore, you can wall now with 1rax properly and even lingsafe. |
| XuuL | | |
hm.. i dont think PGT make their mapstats this way, cause it would just make no sense
if 100 toss play games and win 2 then they have a winratio of 2%, if 10 zerg play and win 8 games, they have 80% ^^
that would be the only useful statistic and i think the webmasters of PGT are smart enough to know that.. but im not sure of corz
btw... good update flo ;) |
| panschk | | |
http://www.pgtour.net/ladder.statistics.php
Well at least these statistics work just like I described it. That's why I already made a thread some months ago to make better statistics, but it seems they don't have time/interest for it :( |
| XuuL | | |
are u sure they didnt revised that statistic ?
i just cant imagine how so building that site can be so stupid... but maybe u r right, im gonna ask an admin next days |
| flothefreak | | |
deleted all things that causes errors in SE when opening.
There's only one "illegal entry" I couldn't track down, I have no idea what it is...I am 99,9% sure that it's no doodad causing troubles, though there aren't any units (start pos, gas, mins) missing.
But it's obviously no gameaffecting matter.
and plz take THIS version for BWMN mappack |
| LGI | | |
| Btw, did you check the range, from main bases to air expands? I think that tanks can shoot some of them... Test tank range. And range to gas at 3 o'clock too. |
| flothefreak | | |
i changed the naturals slightly to make them more defendable. added working obs version, too.
plus, i made some decoration, but I am still not satisfied somehow. I'll see if i will make the main/natural areas more beautiful... |
| flothefreak | | |
updated it...balanced the islands. you could shoot the gas at one of them from a mainbase and on another tanks could hit the CC on the island.
origo hills revival, i still like it =) |
| JK)Valkyrion | | |
| cool, i like it |
| JK)Valkyrion | | |
| only the island not have the same dimension, and are too small, impossible to defend in tvp from a carrier attack... |
| flothefreak | | |
| well, impossible to take without carriers for protoss in PvT. you're a terran i guess. |
| JK)Valkyrion | | |
| why impossible? p can take those island with a shuttle( the bridge are closed right?) |
| flothefreak | | |
hen terran took it
because a few turrets (3-4) totally secure it
yeah, bridge is closed |
| JK)Valkyrion | | |
| it is obvious that the protoss must have carrier for take this island but with carrier, those islands for a t player become useless... |
| flothefreak | | |
and before, it is a VERY fast and safe expo for terran. if the map proves too hard for T, i will remove the mineralblock
modified by flothefreak |
| flothefreak | | |
| update. bow your head in sorrow to the old OrigoHills which had to die because of positional imbalances. I still don't get it why you didn't scream it into my face as it was so obvious...it even got into mappack1 :S |
| lnept | | |
| ew now its such a nooblar map! |
| flothefreak | | |
| it was impossible to keep the idea, even with inverted ramps :/ |
| panschk[FP] | | |
| Well I dislike how you changed a classic "just" because it is imbalanced (And even not that bad o_O) I guess you did not want to sacrifice this map to history, it is your decision and I have to respect it :/ |
| flothefreak | | |
| it definetly was imbalanced. you could shoot workers on some positions from outside, on other pos, there was no way to defend muta harassment due to lack of building space. it played horribly due to that. |
| NastyMarine | | |
12 and 6 expos are positionaly imba..
6 can be harassed easily by air units due to it doesnt touch the bottom/end of the map
12 can be defended easily b/c it does touch the top/end of the map |
| nmc-GRIFon | | |
| Ðóññêèé ÿçûê |
| spinesheath | | |
| Of course we understand that... |
| flothefreak | | |
No..... damn BWCL guys
I just discovered they used/use an old version of OrigoHills for their league. Except for the bottom right mainbase, there's always a 1rax-wall possible. on bottom, it looks like it, but you need a depot on the right edge of the barracks in order to close it.
I fixed this with the last update (actually, it is only 1 tile ;D), but they seem to skipped it. they probably just looked on the pic if s.th. changed. It did, but you won't see it :[
they didnt ask me for the most recent version either... well, that's making me mad |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
| ╩½êD»τ╖¥┘Å┼┘┼Æô |
| flothefreak | | |
yet i'm happy for a new comment!
modified by flothefreak |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
lol sorry. I always spam a post of symbals after someone does too or talks in language that I don't have a font for :D
As for the map, I like it. The decoration is of course very good, but you know that.
Why are the formations in the mains different? As well as the formations for other expos. If they're different, doesn't that mean that they will mine at different rates? Like, one player will be slower than another? I'm just asking. idk, it always seemed to me that difference meant imbalance; I always yelled at tktkvroom for different formations. But you're a more experienced and learned mapper, so I'm asking you =/
Also, why is the western expo and the northern expo so small? The eastern expo is larger, and the southern one has a lot of room.
The SW mineral only hill has a really ugly formation -.- |
| NastyMarine | | |
| i've stated other positional imbalances with comments and on gmcs, but flo cleared it. for instance: the 12 and 6 expos are totally different in size and position away from the edge of the map. the worst thing about this map is that every single nat mineral/gas formation is different. thats a nono. |
| spinesheath | | |
| I wouldn't say so... Different formations do not have to mine at different speeds, but even "equal" formations don't mine at the same speed. At least if they are somehow mirrored, but usually the pathfinding is a little different at every single spot you put your minerals on. Mineral balancing is best done with testing, not only with an editor. |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
| I noticed when testing mrepsnur with comps for mining when he changed the main formations that the only one behind was the comp with minerals to the right. |
| flothefreak | | |
well that map was made in a time where i focused on overall layout, not on exact same details. of course, a same layout on all bases would be cool - but i didnt do it back then, and i like the random style of the map now, so i will keep it (perfect mirroring is necessary on mirror maps, but i dont think it makes a large difference actually. it is better to pay attention to it, though).
a real problem is in my eyes that you cant travel behind the minlines on some pos. like, right bottom corner, there's a tree blocking. i dunno why i have never changed that, although the map had various updates and improvements. |
| flothefreak | | |
| i uploaded a replay against a LeVo guy...1 more rep and i got 10 :o |
| flothefreak | | |
| REPLAY NR10. PROCEED TO NEXT MAP :) |
| Nightmarjoo | | |
| lol which of the reps do you advise looking at the most? I don't want to watch them all, that can be pretty time consuming :) |
| flothefreak | | |
actually i dont know ;D
some of them are basic and just a nice game, some really show use of the whole map and its aspects. the quite long PvT (i think vs Eigenbedarf) is certainly interesting to watch. the LeVo-dude has an interesting zergstyle.
reading the comments to the reps may help with your choice. i usually give a short description of what's in it. it also depends on what you wanna see. |
| flothefreak | | |
| btw very cool that you show interest in those replays |
| LostTampon | | |
sry for diggin out this old map, but i read in the forum of broodwar.de that this map is bugged at the 9 o'clock expansion (peons get stuck behind the mineral block because of gas harvesting), needs a fix :)
modified by LostTampon |
| flothefreak | | |
| thank you |
| flothefreak | | |
| fixed the bug, although it aint pretty now. i may have to reshape the islands or take it out |
(4)Origo_Hills
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wut)sQuadron vs 
IrushYo(1on1, 1.13)
Eigenbedarf(1on1, 1.14)
