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Last update for (2)Niobe : 2017, 04, 15 00:24
| mapID | Mapname (comments) | map size | Author | Rating | Type | play type | | 4809 |  (2)Niobe | 128*128 | CardinalAllin | 2.6 | final | ground |
The map has been rated 21 times and got a total of 55 points |
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| CardinalAllin | | | 
29th January 2016
Version 0.9 Niobe
31st January 2016
Version 0.91 Niobe
-Wider middle (asphalt diamond)
-Wider ramps into 3 and 9 o clock bases
4th February 2016
Version 0.92 Niobe
-Tweak to walling on lowground below the centre base large ramp
8th February 2016
Version 0.93 Niobe
-Smaller centre base, 1 less ramp in
-Wider path around the centre base
-Resources in the Main changed (start location moved 1 tile sideways)
-Added 2 fully unwalkable tiles behind the main mineral line
-Added 2 unbuildable tiles behind the main mineral line
27th May 2016
Version 1.0 Niobe
-Forward bases changed to low ground
4th August 2016
Version 1.1 Niobe
-Side path changed to flat ground and widened. Each path has 3 trees.
-Side base moved and is now 6 mineral patches, no gas. Previously was 7 patches and a gas.
-Corner expos at 5/11 o clock have 1 extra mineral patch for a total of 8.
-Unwalkable Rock doodad added outside naturals.
-2 trees added to centre.
-Larger overlord safe zone near centre.
This is a 1v1 conversion of my 2v2 map Tantalus.
Niobe is a daughter of Tantalus.
 modified by CardinalAllin | | CardinalAllin | | | Link to Tantalus:
Click here
Link to tl page:
Click here
| | outscar | | | I like it a lot. Reminds oldschool LT stylish era maps. Those hills make tanks imba, also I think you should put a chunk of mineral to 1 & 8 islands so CC won't land fast. And actually Tantalus name seems more attractive instead of Niobe so you can change names and apply this name for less 2x2 map.
modified by outscar | | CardinalAllin | | | I dont know what oldschool LT style era maps are but this map doesnt personally remind me of LT.
The hills dont make tanks imba. They do make things uncertain in a good way though. But you havent given any nuance; what stage of the game, what matchup, offense or defense.
I dont see a need to delay terran from landing his cc. Putting a mineral block would create an irritation but wouldnt really change how the game played. You would need quite a few min blocks or equivalent and that would be a bit unclean.
New name: "Niobe wan kenobi"
Nah gunna keep the name, it could be better, no disagreement there (Greek mythology cliche and parent child trope). Were you suggesting to swap the names over? "apply this name for less 2x2 map." I dont understand that part.
Niobe is alright, it'll do. | | outscar | | | | I said it looks like LT because of simple base shapes, nats and corners remind islands, big middle. Something isn't enough, maybe artistic design of shapes and doodads to resemble it as modern maps but that doesn't mean it's bad or so, I love it's simplicity. And yep, swap names, just personal preference not even recommendation. | | CardinalAllin | | | | Ah I see. | | CardinalAllin | | | 4th February 2016
Version 0.92 Niobe
-Tweak to walling on lowground below the centre base large ramp | | CardinalAllin | | | 8th February 2016
Version 0.93 Niobe
-Smaller centre base, 1 less ramp in
-Wider path around the centre base
-Resources in the Main changed (start location moved 1 tile sideways)
-Added 2 fully unwalkable tiles behind the main mineral line
-Added 2 unbuildable tiles behind the main mineral line
In the previous version, the main mineral line had a patch where workers would mine it quite fast but the movement was kinked. It was kind of annoying more than anything. I tried lots of different formations but there was always a problem somewhere.
So eventually I tried moving the start location 1 tile vertically. I didnt find a good formation and wasnt perfectly satisfied with the position anyway.
Next, I moved the start location 1 tile sideways. This is what we have now. The formation is mostly all good. The top mineral is a teeny bit imperfect.
As the start location has moved 1 tile sideways, the gap behind the mineral line is now 1 tile wider. This means you would normally be able to build a gateway or similar behind the min line. However, there are 2 unbuildable tiles which prevent this.
There are also 2 fully unwalkable tiles behind the min line. They enable you to make a wall easily with 1 pylon or depot etc. This can be useful to limit vulture movement for example.
Ive also snipped off some of the unbuildable cliff tiles on the edge of the main close to the nat edge. This means that although the start location has moved sideways 1 tile, there is still the same amount of buildable space to the side of the town hall.
In the badlands tileset there are these weird high ground grass tiles that have a single green pixel even though the tile is meant to be yellow. Its extremely irritating when you notice one, so I removed them from the mains.
The centre base; the ramp that leads to the middle of the map has been moved back a bit, so the path is wider there.
modified by CardinalAllin | | CardinalAllin | | | 
modified by CardinalAllin | | CognacLover | | | So you take my advice making this map 1x1 too much and made from that legit cool thing? You're magician.
You changed mineral formation because Eonzerg said drones ignore minerals? That statement from him was ridiculous. I'm not that pro to confirm this and if someone (maybe Freakling) can show what's proper formation I 'll be glad.
I see centre is unbuildable and that is a good thing to balance terran. If you refuse to put a chunk of mineral to 3&8 then what about making main mineral line as natural's easy muta harassable? Still I think it's really T favourable. I'm gonna play this in ladder instead of LT and see what my D- can do against them :D.
Add some doodads to water also. | | outscar | | | SH~ I forgot to log out and spoiled myself. I like this map also a lot because it's badlands tile, maybe because it reminds me old days and vanilla BW :D. I'm thinking to make some maps soon and hope you guys will like it. Cheers undying BW mapmaking community!
modified by outscar | | CardinalAllin | | | No, eonzergs comment was from before this map even existed. He was talking about other maps.
I explained why the mineral formation was changed on this map in an earlier comment:
"In the previous version, the main mineral line had a patch where workers would mine it quite fast but the movement was kinked. It was kind of annoying more than anything. I tried lots of different formations but there was always a problem somewhere.
So eventually I tried moving the start location 1 tile vertically. I didnt find a good formation and wasnt perfectly satisfied with the position anyway.
Next, I moved the start location 1 tile sideways. This is what we have now. The formation is mostly all good. The top mineral is a teeny bit imperfect."
-end quote-
To get a good formation you have to manually test each map, there is no guaranteed shape that will always work. And this map was especially awkward.
Things I like a main mineral line to have;
-Zerg can build a spire behind the mineral line in a way that protects half of its surface area. This helps ZvZ stability. Zerg can do this on this map but it doesnt actually apply because the Main is not in the corner of the map. So zerg wont actually make the spire behind the min line in ZvZ because it wont be protected from muta.
-No buckets, meaning no 'U' shapes where workers will collect in high density and are vulnerable to splash attacks. See either version of Ground Zero. Buckets are also bad because Protoss can pylon trap lots of enemy workers and this makes particulary PvP worse but PvT also.
-Easy for Protoss and Terran to trap one of their own workers behind the mineral line for air stacks. Sometimes its possible to make it so that they can do this twice (which is nice for if the first gets sniped by muta). And you can make it so that the worker is kind of hidden in as small a space as possible so that it is harder to snipe in the first place. This is something that’s really important if the map is air heavy, so it applies here on Niobe.
-Something that can be nice is if zerg has lots of options for building placement, especially for ZvZ. A min line shape can help facilitate this.
-Its also about how far the mineral line is away from the map boundary. I was doing 1 tile gap but more recently Ive been doing 2 tile gap. Keep in mind cannons behind the mineral line, and other offensive buildings/production buildings behind the mineral line. Also the gap from the top or bottom and the number of buildings required to make anti drop walls such as Protoss vs vult drops in particular.
-It can be cool if zerg can block a zergling in to a gap using a 2nd zergling, again for air stacks for situations when overlord speed has been researched (eg muta vs 2 port wraith).
-Take into consideration comsats. They affect mineral mining but I check with comsat if it affects the gas mining at the natural as a higher priority.
The mineral formations are the last thing that needs doing though, don’t stress about them. To begin with, just make a good basic shape that doesn’t invite big problems (like workers going behind and mining from the back). Once the map is close to finished you can see if it is worth spending time working on the min line.
I just thought Id share what I think about for the fun of it. The example spawns on Tantalus are my favourite, or Latin Quarter (blue or pink spawn).
The middle of this map is quite unbuildable but there is still space for plenty of stuff. Centre gates etc. Or terran map split using turrets. Both are easy to do here. So I wouldn’t say the middle is unbuildable because to me that implies you cant do those things. But yeah its not fully buildable and I agree it does limit terran a little to make it balanced.
I already said there is no need to put a chunk of mineral at 1/7 o clock. There is also no need to make muta harass stronger in the main so I wont be doing that. I don’t think the map is terran favoured, I think its balanced.
You cant ladder on LT and you cant ladder on this map :)
I like it without water doodads. Yeah badlands is pretty cool, I like yellow grass and asphalt.
Look forward to seeing a map from you, maybe do a fairly basic sketch first and share that, don’t do too much decoration and stuff straight away. Saves time if you want to make changes later ofcourse.
| | outscar | | | | Thank you sir Cardinal for encouraging me publishing my maps. Don't expect from me much because my project can be as bad as default Blizzard maps. Really clear explanation from you so now I won't try to teach you what to do knowing you're expert, I understand many things now due to your explanations really appreciated them. I need to get used SCMDraft and now searching some guide, only I found was Nightmarjoo's explanations and they seem to explain really good. My goal is to transfer some SC2 WoL era maps to BW because they look most simple to me. Good luck for all of us, Lord will be in our side I wanna say to pray for BW maps. | | CardinalAllin | | | 27th May 2016
Version 1.0 Niobe
-Forward bases changed to low ground | | CardinalAllin | | | 4th August 2016
Version 1.1 Niobe
-Side path changed to flat ground and widened. Each path has 3 trees.
-Side base moved and is now 6 mineral patches, no gas. Previously was 7 patches and a gas.
-Corner expos at 5/11 o clock have 1 extra mineral patch for a total of 8.
-Unwalkable Rock doodad added outside naturals.
-2 trees added to centre.
-Larger overlord safe zone near centre. | | CardinalAllin | | | Any comments about gameplay now?
Also check out these pics:
tl thread | | Jukado | | | Lemmata organised some showmatches on this map, (6)Revolver, (3)Inner Coven, and (4)Everflow between Firebathero and friends.
Cloud vs Ggaemo TvZ on Niobe, cast by Firebathero.
click here Niobe and Revolver
click here Inner Coven and Everflow
| | JungleTerrain | | | that game on revolver lol
modified by JungleTerrain |
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