|Simple name for not so simple of a map.|
-min wall to very size of nat choke.
-min only expo on same high ground as nat
-tankable 3rd gas from cliff
-last fight min expantion with few minerals around 5k for those epic games.
-large mains which i am now just noticing when i thought they where small.
-deco not done, der.
-yes 1 ramp is large then its couterpart ramp going to fix that.
Just tell me what you think overall
|I don't like your expo layout at all. I think the 3rd base is too far away, both the min only and cliffable gas expo. One of them should be closer to the nat imo. Then, your other two expos are too close to eachother.|
Lots of wasted space, as result your map is incredibly tight and non-mobile. I don't like your nats. They're kind of sloppy imo.
You should read my mapping guide.
|nightmar i honestly dont care about your opionon because you always say the same stuff, Wasted space. read my map guide to basicly every map you comment on.|
|Think about it trooper, u 1s said to me that ur main goal when u where making a map is balance remember?|
IMO this docent look balanced at all I dont see how T vs P can happen here, specially with this new super macro type of play players are doing now a days.
|This looks alright but make the middle more open.|
|Then I don't care about your piece of shit map. Do you fucking play starcraft? Did you even bother opening the map in sc to test it yourself? I keep saying the same thing? Then stop making the same amatuer fucking mistakes! Seriously! No, the map is not terrible, but it is far from being good. This map is not hard to make. Anyone can open up scmdraft and make a decent x/y symmetrical (2)map. It's a fucking ptarish map, except that ptar understands proper expo spacing.|
As for wasted space specifically, ONE THIRD OF YOUR MAP IS USEABLE. If you divide the map into three equal thirds, the middle third is the only part players can really use for action. The bottom and top thirds are basically owned by the player. The pathing through them is not good enough to make the action spread throughout map. I predict the map would play very turtly, with all the action happening in the middle. Players just have two default ramp chokes with an altitude advantage to defend giving them free 4base. What about that sounds good at all? You think I don't know what I'm talking about? You're a joke and so are your maps. I've tried to help but you're too incompetent and fucking stupid to make a map.
|LOL way 2 get Nightmarjoo pissed of trooper.|
Hey btw Nightmarjoo iv reed part of ur article u wrote on TL.com, most of the stuff iv read IK, but i rally want to be a better map maker and win a MOTM, in a respectful way could u tell me what Im missing, and what part of ur article I should reed to improve?
|Well nightmar isant the greatest mapper by anymeans in fact he not really even good. The only people that should be posting guides are like testbug and p4e |
Also do you ever play sc? did you even bother to open your map in starcraft and play it yourself either? Because from your maps it looks like you dont. All those league maps with your name on it, yeah just because you tested them does not really make you a creator of the map. You also say that my map is a piece of shit then turn back around and say its not? When i say its a piece of shit i say it unless it gets fixed. Lets take a look at your last 2 player map and see your expo layout, http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3588 . And your saying my 3rd expo is far away from nat? You talk about tightness, well in middle of my map there is no expo that prevents larger units from getting through and going for flanking. So you really shouldent say the shit you say about my map unless you take 5 minutes to look at your map and look over where you screwed up saying in other peoples maps and not your own, because your too good for your map to be wrong. And im tired of hearing this 'wasted space' problem because your being a hypocrit about it. Because i can go to all the maps that you've made and can find a lot of 'wasted space'
modified by Trooper
modified by Trooper
|Just a quick update:|
-made main smaller
-pushed 2nd min only back so it farther away from the 4th gas expo
-did some deco and unbuildable land
-fixed ramp a bit.
|Just fix the map, seriously.|
|I don't understand what he means by wasted space either but I do think your map has too much gas concentrated at the top/bottom. It would be great if you could turn say the minonly on top of the nat plateau into a low ground gas-nat facing the center (and the current third gas into a minonly). In this way the players would be forced to control the center in order to expo there.|
I think the multiplicity of ramps and their size give fluidity to the map but you should make the ramp leading down from the nat plateau into the center wider.
What is the point of that mineral block in the minonly next ot the mains? Can units cross this block? Otherwise units moving in that direction from the center to say defend against tanks sieged right next to the main's cliff wall will have pathing issues.
|so lancet you mean like that or the other gas expo turn into min only.|
-turned 2nd min only into gas expo wanted it not to be expo, but dident want huge uglyness right in flight path of w/e.
-added min only in middle of map 4 patches of 300,500,700,1000.
-turned plateau min only into low ground gas expo facing middle of map.
-made top right and bottom left min only expos.
-greens gas now finaly at top after forgeting to fix that a few times.
|Oh damn you hurt my feelings Trooper, calling me a bad mapper :( I might care, except for the fact that I rarely make maps and have admitted many times I am a terrible mapper. I'm more of a mapping coach than a map maker. Making a guide on something requires only the knowledge of how to do it, not the ability.|
Sty_lezerg-ex I'm sorry I haven't commented on your map again yet, I'll try to find the time.
What league maps have my name on them? Yellow does, because I edited a version of it. Testbug didn't remove my name for some reason when he made a new version and gave it to yello-ant. What else?
Do I ever play sc? Yes, I was b- iccup last season. All of my matchups are atleast C iccup skill except for my tvt. I'd say I'm relatively decent at playing sc. Nothing you've done or said makes me think you're more than a d- player.
I openly admit in my map threads what's wrong with my maps. Why are we talking about me? This is about you and your inability to accept the criticism of someone more knowledgeable on mapping.
I have never said once that my maps lack these problems, I usually point them out myself when I notice them. I could edit my maps, but I have no wish to. That doesn't make the maps good, it just makes me lazy. That my maps suck doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. In that map, everyone else agreed the map was stupid, so who cares about it?
|I like the changes mostly, I don't like the islands though, and the map looks more squareish.|
Why'd you take away the corner expo's gas? I think it should have gas.
I don't think the min onlys in the center are needed at all.
There's still a lot of space you've wasted at 12/6 with all that water and rocks and stuff. Can't you move everything down/up a bit and make the center bigger while using that space at the same time?
|Well thing about moving everything back to make middle larger is good how ever i do want to keep the middle gas expo's where they are close enough to the ramp that the enemy can go off the ridge and do a flank attack on that expo but also that it is easier to defend expecial for terran because they have high ground. But that does fear me that terran might have an advantage because of this. |
Oh yeah and, D+ >.< yeah summer here so i'm playing more.
modified by Trooper
|Maybe give it a vertical formation? That might make it more vulnerable because it would stick out into the middle more even if you moved it closer. Also, the cliff to the side of it is one of the instances of "wasted space" imo, you could shrink/remove the cliff except for a single strip and put the gas expos against it, making them farther from the main even after moving everything down and vulnerable from the other side of the cliff for all three races.|
|OK, we have a disagreement here. I thought the problem was too much gas concentrated on the top or bottom which encourages turtling. Changing the plateau minonly into a low ground gas-nat facing the center helps in solving this problem. But if you keep the corner expos as gas-nats then doesn't this defeat the purpose of the change?|
Not that you have to do everything other people tell you to do. After all is YOUR map but I am just trying to understand the logic behind the changes.
|i'll test it out tommorow and see what conclution i get.|
|I'm thinking you can make your middle bigger by making the 3 and 9 expansion smaller.|
|Better, not perfect. Everything seems to me to be so messy still.|
Also, I think I would enlarge the side ramps to make those side paths fully viable.
What's your concept here? I think I can't really help aside from say "this or that could be done better, doesn't look like Testbug" without knowing more about what's important to you in the map. I don't really see a concept, just a basic layout.
As I've said before I can help test the map, but then you'd have to put up with my being able to speak like I know what I'm talking about since I'll have had first hand experience on the map!
Edited name of map Green Leaf and Blue R 'Ridge'
got rid of changable nat size
moved corners gas to middle side expantions.
Edited the Nateral some bit
edited the ruins on platue
and did deco
|uploaded replay, not im not zerg so thats why im sucky and my friends not terran|
|Lol good edits but what was the purpose of changing the name...old name too cheesy ;P|
|Lol just saw the replay...lol|
You were okay just made some mistakes like build the pool in a wrong spot which made your drones at gas go weird. And why did your friend leave after...
|reason i changed name is because the ' in o'er was making it a bitch to upload i had to try 10 times before i could do an update. yeah like i said im not zerg >.< and he dropped|